re: Batman vs. Superman: Dawn of Justice Official Trailer

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Zack Snyder is a trailer-making genius. I can't think of a movie he directed where the trailer wasn't awesome. The hype his trailers creates are justifiable when they come out, but often people seem underwhelmed and disappointed after watching the actual movie. This is a major flaw of his.

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Yes it is. See the link to the Sucker Punch trailer I posted earlier in the thread.

On a related note, no one ever mentions my 2nd favorite Zack Snyder movie (after 300).

Legend of the Guardians - Trailer

If you have this on Blu-Ray it is a damn near "reference quality" disc to use when setting up your tv/blu ray player.

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Zack Snyder is a trailer-making genius. I can't think of a movie he directed where the trailer wasn't awesome. The hype his trailers creates are justifiable when they come out, but often people seem underwhelmed and disappointed after watching the actual movie. This is a major flaw of his.

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Absolutely. SuckerPunch and 300 come to mind.

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I may be in the minority of those who loved MoS

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I enjoyed it as well. There were some flaws in it (first being David Goyer sucks with his character lines "You're a monster, Zod, and I'm gonna stop you." “I grew up in Kansas, General. I’m about as American as it gets.” Corny AF), but overall I'd probably give it a 7.5/10.

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Bruce Wayne has gotten his hands on some sort of kryptonite.

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I could be wrong but I believe they said that there will by no kryptonite in this world.

I am excited that Affleck brought in Oscar winning screenplay writer Chris Terrio (Argo) to help with the movie.

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I also really liked MOS and thought a lot of the criticism was unwarranted. It definitely seems like Superman's recklessness in MOS - which is the major criticism of the film - was a major set up to the franchise.

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The general public and some fan-boys expected Superman to come out of the gate as the mature moral figure they are used to. It takes time, he has a development arc like any other character. It also breathes some life into a character that can sometimes be seen as monotone.

Its going to be great when Batman and Superman join forces and Superman fully develops.

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It definitely seems like Superman's recklessness in MOS - which is the major criticism of the film - was a major set up to the franchise.

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And that's cool if that's the case. It just would've been nice to see that mentioned at the end of MoS instead of having Stamper wave around his courtside tickets as if nothing had happened.

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It just would've been nice to see that mentioned at the end of MoS instead of having Stamper wave around his courtside tickets as if nothing had happened.

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When you're trying to get laid, you gotta ignore reality.

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When you're trying to get laid, you gotta ignore reality.

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"We can grab dinner after the game. I know of a nice bistro that's in between the corpse disposal center and the still smoldering embers of the Metropolis Bank tower."

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if it's at all realistic in the comic book sense

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This might be one of my favorite quotes on TD.

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The general public and some fan-boys expected Superman to come out of the gate as the mature moral figure they are used to. It takes time, he has a development arc like any other character.

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To be fair, the purity of Superman was that he WAS initially a moral and just figure. There was no period of adjustment. He didn't need to "develop," in that sense, that's what made Superman, Superman. Making him more conflicted and and error prone or lacking conviction takes away that core ideal.

From a character development perspective, that's a HUGE shift. It almost completely changes the identity of the character. It actually makes Superman more like other heroes than it does make him a paragon of truth and justice...and... (Yes, it's closer to later versions of CB Superman, that is true. That doesn't mean it's familiar territory.)...

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It also breathes some life into a character that can sometimes be seen as monotone.

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As a side note, I really, really hate this sentiment. As a pretty big fan of more than a few "straight laced to a fault" characters, it's kind of depressing to see that true moral conviction is seen as monotone and boring. Or that you can't have a good story, or an arc, with someone who always does the right thing.

Instead of being unique, he's like everybody else, I think that's, subconsciously, part of what those folks are saying.

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As a side note, I really, really hate this sentiment. As a pretty big fan of more than a few "straight laced to a fault" characters, it's kind of depressing to see that true moral conviction is seen as monotone and boring. Or that you can't have a good story, or an arc, with someone who always does the right thing.

Instead of being unique, he's like everybody else, I think that's, subconsciously, part of what those folks are saying.

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As originally conceived, Superman is the single most boring character in comics. He has/had no depth of character. He was a shining paragon of goodness and morality and truth and justice and the American way, which played well during the late 30s and early 40s to kids who were excited about escaping reality and fighting Hitler.

As the fanbase matured somewhat, or as the writers tried for a broader fanbase anyway, they realized they need to give this character more definition. Enter the love interest, enter the loneliness, enter the family history. Even the writers recognized that a hero without flaws is a boring hero, particularly when that hero is nigh-unkillable. The drama sinks, the reader's ability to identify with the character sinks, and it becomes a monotonous slog through a boring punch after a boring kick to thugs who stand no chance against him. That's why the psychology of Superman is the single most interesting facet of the character. Everyone has felt loneliness. Everyone has felt the pain of loss. Not everyone can do something about it. Not everyone has to reconcile the desire for revenge with the desire to live up to your father's standards. This stuff is compelling.

Which brings me to MoS, which is one of the worst superhero movies in the recent slew of superhero movies (admittedly better than any other Superman movie), directed by a man who is almost entirely incapable of presenting his grand visions in a coherent, well thought out, intelligent manner on screen. Snyder is all flash and no substance. The only movie of his worth a shite is Watchmen and he damn near blew that. He took the comic of 300 and made it into a 2 hour slow-motion catastrophe of a movie. I had no idea movies with so much action could be so boring, but it is precisely that reason that they are boring. He is Michael Bay with a more artistic palette. That's it.

I will not pay to see this shite. I have been duped too many times by this shyster to not feel shame.

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As originally conceived, Superman is the single most boring character in comics. He has/had no depth of character.

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I don't disagree, because...

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Even the writers recognized that a hero without flaws is a boring hero, particularly when that hero is nigh-unkillable.

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This. It was pretty tough to write a good character who both always did the right thing AND was basically unkillable and able to do whatever he wanted. That's kind of always been the tension with Superman, and that's what plays out here: The IDEAL of Superman is where he gets his identity, but that idea is built upon a problematic base of true moral conviction and ultra-level power. Put simply: He has the capability to ALWAYS do the right thing....

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The drama sinks, the reader's ability to identify with the character sinks, and it becomes a monotonous slog through a boring punch after a boring kick to thugs who stand no chance against him. That's why the psychology of Superman is the single most interesting facet of the character. Everyone has felt loneliness. Everyone has felt the pain of loss. Not everyone can do something about it. Not everyone has to reconcile the desire for revenge with the desire to live up to your father's standards. This stuff is compelling.

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Agree, again, to an extent. The thing is that pain and loss, two things referenced, in general don't have anything to do with "doing the right thing," (although situations in this category clearly have those kinds of outcomes).

Can a reader not identify with a character who might suffer pain and loss, but ALWAYS does the right thing? That's really the question. The answer, to those in the "good is boring," camp would say No. They can't.

I never said this is what I thought, just what I think people going through this kind of reaction are thinking. And I get this from what I think the reaction to "moral purity is boring," sway in culture.