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re: Batman Begins
Posted on 5/7/20 at 10:39 am to Upperdecker
Posted on 5/7/20 at 10:39 am to Upperdecker
quote:
Batman movies should be crime movies, not just superhero movies. That’s why Nolan succeeded and everyone else failed
It is funny to see the takeaway so many people have from the Nolan movies are that he made Batman "dark & gritty" when that wasn't the case at all. He grounded Batman in reality.
1
Posted on 5/7/20 at 10:48 am to FairhopeTider
quote:
He grounded Batman in reality.
Yes. Everything from Crane's fear dust to the train fight to set off a "microwave emitter" to vaporize the entire water source and spread the fear dust felt just like our reality.
Posted on 5/7/20 at 10:56 am to Jay Are
I may be off, but I believe that he means the actual character of Bruce Wayne/Batman are grounded in reality.
Posted on 5/7/20 at 11:05 am to sorantable
One thing that makes TDK almost unwatchable is Eric Roberts. My gosh what a hack. The rest of the movie is great.
Posted on 5/7/20 at 11:07 am to wartiger2004
What don't you like about his performance?
Posted on 5/7/20 at 11:09 am to OrangeEmpire
Just seems like he is doing a piss poor mobster impression. I will give him this his look in the meeting when Joker is offering his services is priceless.
Posted on 5/7/20 at 11:12 am to wartiger2004
I feel like he recycles Dave Stepanowicz into whatever role he has.
Posted on 5/7/20 at 11:14 am to Loungefly85
quote:
It annoys me how it’s obvious Gotham was changed to be more like NYC in TDKR when in the first two it was obvious Chicago was the stand in.
I don't know how much of the plot had to be rewritten when Ledger died, but I always figured the city change was plot driven.
In the first two, Gotham doesn't have to be an island. In TDKR, it has to be an island for Bane's blowing the bridges to cut it off from military entrance. That led to it looking more like Manhattan, because they had to emphasize it was an island.
Posted on 5/7/20 at 11:21 am to sorantable
quote:
Batman Begins
A perfect origin story, but that's also what keeps it from being above TDK for me. I prefer a Batman that's fully integrated into his life of vigilantism and battling his rogues gallery at the top of his game. Some parts of BB felt a little too much like a set too, whereas the Gothams of TDK and TDKR felt like living, breathing cities because so much more of those movies was shot on location.
Posted on 5/7/20 at 11:35 am to Upperdecker
quote:
Stop. Never go full retard. TDK is one of the greatest films of all time.
quote:
Never go full retard.
quote:
It’s not a popularity thing, and nobody gives a crap about the source material except nerds like you.
1) What is Batman without the source material?
2) I have no problem with someone taking something far away from the source material if it makes sense. TDK is an excellent film. I never said anything different, I said it wasn't a great superhero film for that reason alone. And that's fine. When we rate or value something we often can value something different. But when there are parameters, like "Best superhero film," it shouldn't mean "Best film from source material of superhero, even though there are is little connection to the source material, and little superheroness in it."
quote:
Batman movies should be crime movies, not just superhero movies.
That could be a take, sure. I never said it couldn't.
quote:
That’s why Nolan succeeded and everyone else failed and will continue to fail. Batman on the big screen is much better that way
Uh what? Batman and Batman Returns are excellent movies. And yeah, they are more pre-TDKR Batman than Post, but at the core they are still superhero movies.
Nolan's trilogy is good for what it is, but they aren't superhero movies, and that's fine. And BB is the most superhero among them, that's all I said. You have a bit of an overreaction.
This post was edited on 5/7/20 at 11:39 am
Posted on 5/7/20 at 12:15 pm to RLDSC FAN
8 Oscar nominations, 2 wins
Most Oscar noms for a superhero movie (surpassed by Joker, but that’s not a superhero movie IMO), 2nd most by a sci-fi or fantasy or superhero type movie (ROTK)
First Oscar win in any major category by a superhero film
46th highest grossing movie ever, not accounting for inflation (4th highest at release)
#33 adjusted for inflation now. #27 on release.
Scores of 94% rotten tomatoes critics and audience, 9/10 IMDB. #4 IMDB rated movie. 84 on metacritic “universal acclaim”.
Generally universally praised. Groundbreaking superhero movie. “Legitimized the comic book movie”, paving the way for Marvel and DC universes
Consistently placed in top movies of all time lists by various publications
Most Oscar noms for a superhero movie (surpassed by Joker, but that’s not a superhero movie IMO), 2nd most by a sci-fi or fantasy or superhero type movie (ROTK)
First Oscar win in any major category by a superhero film
46th highest grossing movie ever, not accounting for inflation (4th highest at release)
#33 adjusted for inflation now. #27 on release.
Scores of 94% rotten tomatoes critics and audience, 9/10 IMDB. #4 IMDB rated movie. 84 on metacritic “universal acclaim”.
Generally universally praised. Groundbreaking superhero movie. “Legitimized the comic book movie”, paving the way for Marvel and DC universes
Consistently placed in top movies of all time lists by various publications
Posted on 5/7/20 at 12:34 pm to Upperdecker
quote:
8 Oscar nominations, 2 wins
Supporting Actor was a great and deserved win. As said, a single performance does not make the film one of the greatest films of all time. But sound editing...eh.
quote:
Most Oscar noms for a superhero movie (surpassed by Joker, but that’s not a superhero movie IMO),
That's an interesting statement. quote:
2nd most by a sci-fi or fantasy or superhero type movie (ROTK)
Yeah, no.
Mad Max: Fury Road had 10 Noms and 6 wins.
ROTK had 13....but Fellowship also had 11. Raiders of the Lost Ark had 8 Noms and 4 wins. Star Was - 10 and 6.
With that said, the Oscars have become less important over time. TDK got a Best Picture nom to be "edgy," as do many, many films. See Black Panther.
quote:
46th highest grossing movie ever, not accounting for inflation (4th highest at release)
#33 adjusted for inflation now. #27 on release.
Scores of 94% rotten tomatoes critics and audience, 84 on metacritic “universal acclaim”.
It made a lot of money and is universally praised. So then Endgame is the better movie? Made way more money has the same RT score?
quote:
9/10 IMDB. #4 IMDB rated movie.
Everyone nows this one is flawed. Shawshank is not the greatest film ever made.
quote:
Generally universally praised.
As are 90% of modern, well-made superhero films.
quote:
Groundbreaking superhero movie.
What ground did it break?
quote:
“Legitimized the comic book movie”, paving the way for Marvel and DC universes
You misspelled X-Men and Spider-Man. Those two franchises started the modern comic book trend, not TDK. Additionally, Iron Man came out the same year, it didn't need TDK to "Start" something.
quote:
Consistently placed in top movies of all time lists by various publications
Because it's a safe, edgy pick that can make someone look cool, but look like they have broad appeal. They can "branch out" from Malick films with TDK.
Like I said, it is an excellent film, but let's not go overboard here.
This post was edited on 5/7/20 at 12:40 pm
Posted on 5/7/20 at 12:37 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
1) What is Batman without the source material?
Nobody cares about the source material. You can stay home and hope for another movie where Batman throws punches and “POW” comes up on screen.
quote:
But when there are parameters, like "Best superhero film," it shouldn't mean "Best film from source material of superhero, even though there are is little connection to the source material, and little superheroness in it."
It’s an incredible film featuring a superhero confronting and fighting a villain. A lot of source material features superheroes outwitting villains. It doesn’t need punches thrown to be a superhero film. Its a movie about the joker. You don’t beat the Joker with punches, you beat him by outwitting him
quote:
Uh what? Batman and Batman Returns are excellent movies.
No. They’re excellent compared to the crap that came before them. But they’re not regarded as excellent movies. Audience and critics agree on that
quote:
Nolan's trilogy is good for what it is, but they aren't superhero movies, and that's fine.
Is Captain America Winter Soldier a superhero movie? What about AntMan, or Deadpool? Brightburn? Your definition of superhero movie
Is something obscure where they have to do a superhero thing and stick to a source material, in which they also need to do a superhero thing. Everyone else says “what’s the subject? A superhero? Fighting a villain? It’s a superhero movie”. They don’t need to fit a certain genre in most people’s minds, and expanding them to different genres is much more productive then using the same basic formula over and over. But that’s probably why you’re a DC fan and not a Marvel fan. You need your superheros to always be heroic, never have real flaws, never show humor or despair or any other real emotions. And always fight a villain that is clearly and obviously a bad guy, no backstory to really blur the lines
Posted on 5/7/20 at 12:43 pm to RLDSC FAN
TDKR did the opposite for me on the re-watch, I initially wanted to defend it but its kind of hollow
horrible death though
quote:
Tom Hardy's Bane is awesome.
horrible death though
Posted on 5/7/20 at 12:45 pm to BilJ
I didn't mind it. Talia's death oth...
Posted on 5/7/20 at 12:48 pm to Upperdecker
quote:
Nobody cares about the source material. You can stay home and hope for another movie where Batman throws punches and “POW” comes up on screen.
So nobody cares about Batman? Got it.
quote:
It’s an incredible film featuring a superhero confronting and fighting a villain. A lot of source material features superheroes outwitting villains. It doesn’t need punches thrown to be a superhero film. Its a movie about the joker. You don’t beat the Joker with punches, you beat him by outwitting him
Who said anything about punches. Not being a superhero film does not have to do about content. It has to do with narrative structure, levels of fantasy involved, common tropes. Nolan actively avoids all common tropes for his effect, which is making a crime film with the veil of superheroes.
It's the same thing as Star Wars being a fantasy epic, disguised as a science fiction film.
quote:
No. They’re excellent compared to the crap that came before them. But they’re not regarded as excellent movies. Audience and critics agree on that
They are excellent superhero movies.
quote:
They don’t need to fit a certain genre in most people’s minds, and expanding them to different genres is much more productive then using the same basic formula over and over.
Genres are weird things, yes, and are hard for most people to wrangle, that's why you often have to look "under the hood," rather than what it looks like. That's precisely why TDK is not a superhero film. And again, that's fine, it's an excellent take on the Batman mythos outside of superheroes.
quote:
But that’s probably why you’re a DC fan and not a Marvel fan.
quote:
You need your superheros to always be heroic, never have real flaws, never show humor or despair or any other real emotions. And always fight a villain that is clearly and obviously a bad guy, no backstory to really blur the lines
What? How do you know what I prefer? And there's a big difference between a superhero with flaws and Nolan's pure reality by the way.
This post was edited on 5/7/20 at 12:56 pm
Posted on 5/7/20 at 2:36 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
TDK got a Best Picture nom to be "edgy," as do many, many films. See Black Panther.
The Dark Knight was not nominated for Best Picture. It's exclusion from that category is regularly cited as the reason the Academy voted to change the field to up to 10 nominees.
And being the most popular thing of the year is the opposite of edgy.
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