re: Avenger: AoU Reviews (**MAJOR SPOILERS**)

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Wish SW would have told them what she knew about the work HYDRA was doing on the scepter. How did they know what to look for without Stark's hologram tech? It wasn't the gem HYDRA was after, I am 99% sure they didn't know it was there. Hell, Thor didn't know it was there. Scarlet Witch somehow knew/hoped what Stark would do with it based on his motivations and what she knew of HYDRA's work. Whatever she needed/wanted him to do was part of what HYDRA was working on. If you look when Stark is walking through the warehouse toward the scepter at the beginning, there are half built robots everywhere. Which later became the beginning of Ultron's army. They knew it was an AI. None of this was ever explained or expounded on in the 2 hour version. What was her original plan? What did she want Stark to find. I'll come back to this thought in a bit, but I want to drop it here. Abell brought up how he thought the witch implied that the scepter would control Stark. Where I thought she meant fear. I am starting to think he was right. Just keep reading this monstrosity.

The AI copied itself to create Ultron. It didn't leave the Scepter, it is still there post Ultron's creation. Which tells me that it still had a plan or protocol. It is possible the plan was to control the new AI, or fully download itself. So it could destroy the earth and return the stone to Thanos. Which the movie implies that Stark's tech was the only thing on the planet that was powerful enough to handle his programming. This also became its downfall. What became Ultron was a originally supposed to be a tool, but changed with his interaction with Jarvis. When he kept talking about strings, Ultron could have been referring to either, or both, the AI around the stone and Thanos. As well as humanity's compassion.

Next we come to this. How could Ultron use the scepter as a non human without a brain to guide thoughts? I had 2 ideas to hash this out from my end.

1)By using the part of him copied from the AI, when touching the scepter, to interact with the original AI via the scepter's interface/handle...thing, whatever.

2)The other idea is that he is only under the illusion he can use it, when in fact he isn't controlling anyone, but something else is. We can make this leap because the Gem and SW are in the same realm of powers. She cant read Ultron's mind because he was a non flesh entity, which also means he cannot project thought to control someones will. So how did he control another human? The AI went along with the plan because it saw that it would bring about the Earth's destruction.

Now back to what Abell thought the scepter was doing regarding Tony. If so, it is in control of the stone, itself, and the scepter. Which even if Abell wasn't right, sure does seem likely from a logical standpoint. I am really starting to believe the AI was controlling Loki and everyone else affected by the scepter in Avengers one. Loki was more mentally damaged than Stark was, if that was the main specification for control as SW implied. Why would Thanos hand over an infinite stone to a petulant child? He wouldn't care that the child didn't know it was there, he wouldn't leave something like an infinite stone, especially the mind stone, up to the whim of a arrogant spoiled brat of a trickster, unless he was in control at all times.

This all comes together on 2 things. A) It is the Mind stone B) When Tony and Bruce observe the AI they describe it as a living being.

Basically, my theory is that the AI allows the holder of the scepter an illusion of control as long as that user's actions fits Thanos' plan. It is what actually controls minds, including the users if need be.

All of this also begs the question. Why couldn't Ultron, a bastardized copy of the AI using the gem, use it before building the Vision body? He didn't need the gem to power it, but enhance it. Or so they would have you think. He didn't need the gem for the body, He needed the body to control the gem. He knew his origin, his "father AI" was living, but he wasn't. It has neuropathways whereas Ultron has hardware, but Ultron wanted the power of the stone for himself.

Btw, having come through all that, and having seen the SW know and reverse the scepters effect. We can make this conclusion(85% sure). She knew the whole time what the scepter was, what it was doing, and what she wanted to use it for. To kill Tony Stark. Which if I were her, another soul would never find out everything I knew.

Second to last. If she said it, meaning the scepter, would control Tony. It creates another implication. A bigger one for the future. When Tony insisted on finishing Vision despite the the circumstances. It was the same as when he went after building Ultron. This probably means the blight from the scepter will be staying with Tony more permanently than normal, Impacting the Civil War.

One last point, yes for full mind control the scepter has had to be touched to someone's heart. However Tony wasn't completely controlled, he was influenced. Loki on the other hand was always holding the scepter.

So once again, what the frick was that AI, and what is/was its source for living artificial intelligence? Are there more of them.....?

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He actually brings up some interesting thoughts. Maybe someone with expert comic knowledge could help him with some of his questions and ideas?

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He actually brings up some interesting thoughts. Maybe someone with expert comic knowledge could help him with some of his questions and ideas?

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Honestly. I think I went way too far with it. I got into it because a) it wasnt explained and b) Marvel likes hiding big things in seemingly worthless tidbits.


And here we go again, just had a thought. It probably wasn't an AI.

I had a logic hole in my theory. Ultron was a copy of the AI controlling the stone. Which means he should have been able to control it also. Except...

It was a consciousness. Thanos either forced, coerced, or a minion volunteered, to become the controlling piece of the weapon.

Tony and Banner had never seen anything like it, so they didn't recognize it. Computers are inherently ordered. Look at Jarvis' shape, it was generally defined. The "AI" was amoeba-like.

Ultron couldn't control it himself because he was a copy of a consciousness, not truly alive himself.

Or I had no logic hole and Ultron simply wasnt a complete copy, the other "AI" created a neutered version of himself.

Just got back

Sensory overload. I don't even know what I think other than iron man might as well have been the sub villain

Side note, at this point pretty sure that Adam Warlock will not be in the MCU, given the characterization of Vision in this film.


or Crystal from the Inhumans for that matter.

Was the place where Hawkeye's family lived the same farm from the Transformers?

Fun movie, but a bad film. A lot more interesting than the last one. Spader does great voice work. Andy Serkis is good in his one scene. Way too many characters, way too much going on screen, way too cluttered frame, but you're still able to process everything.

It should be renamed "Team America: Age of Ultron" they go around and destroy, I mean PROTECT a city somewhere abroad while barking orders in English to the native citizens of wherever

It's an exhausting movie. Thank god somebody died. I guess something was at stake. Tony Stark was basically a bad guy, and yet again, they have the avengers fight each other throughout the movie because hey, this movie needs more action.

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Tony Stark was basically a bad guy

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Some theories have been discussed in this thread regarding this. I think the stones have some kind of Lord of the Rings effect on people. Stark thought he could use the power for good, but evil was born from it. Some people are just saying that Tony Stark has always been a narcissist and his actions were not out of character at all.

Yea I laughed at how "dumb" it was when the trailer was flying.

I don't want to get into a dissection of THIS movie, but he was a bad guy, and then he tried to do the same shite twice. Not the real issue, but like last time he doesn't consult anyone, ask anyone. He just does the same stupid shite twice

The inclusion of the twins basically reinforces what a bad guy he is. First his weapons murder their family, then Olsen twin knows what he'll do with the new ultron body because she assumes he's a bad guy

What the frick?