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re: Why is the spread offense not run in the pros?
Posted on 7/20/08 at 12:42 am to Obi-Wan Tiger
Posted on 7/20/08 at 12:42 am to Obi-Wan Tiger
quote:But both offenses were ultimately shut down in the playoffs. What Bellichik and Parcells showed in SB 25, is you hit the WR and QB enough that o is not effective. In the NFL the defenses are just too fast. It will win some games and post some nice stats, but the chuck and duck will not win the SB.
Houston went to the playoffs seven straight years using that offense, while a lot of teams running conventional offenses never sniffed the post season. Buffalo went to 4 straight SBs using a modified version of it.
This post was edited on 7/20/08 at 12:45 am
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Posted on 7/20/08 at 12:48 am to H-Town Tiger
I think a team running spread/Run n Shoot theoretically COULD win a Super Bowl, but it's highly unlikely. Outside rushers are just too fast, plus overall team speed on defense in the pros.
You'd have to have the perfect group of guys on a fluke run and you're still talking 1/100 chances. It's just extremely hard to win in the NFL with east-to-west runs and passes totaling 75-80% of your offense.
You'd have to have the perfect group of guys on a fluke run and you're still talking 1/100 chances. It's just extremely hard to win in the NFL with east-to-west runs and passes totaling 75-80% of your offense.
This post was edited on 7/20/08 at 12:49 am
Posted on 7/20/08 at 12:50 am to H-Town Tiger
In SB XXV the Giant Offense (OJ Anderson, Maurice Carthon, and huge catch by Stephen Baker) won that gme by keeping the Bills off the field for what an hour or more (in real time). When they needed it the most the Bills drove the field and set themselves up for the win, if Norwood makes the Kick, who knows if the lose 3 more in a row, they might have won one of them. Glad they didnt though.
This post was edited on 7/20/08 at 12:52 am
Posted on 7/20/08 at 12:54 am to H-Town Tiger
quote:
But both offenses were ultimately shut down in the playoffs. What Bellichik and Parcells showed in SB 25, is you hit the WR and QB enough that o is not effective.
Not that I don't atleast partially agree with you, but if Norwood doesn't miss that FG, the Bills and that offense would have a SB ring.
Posted on 7/20/08 at 12:54 am to schulte
The extra long half time, followed by a long drive left the Bills cold, but the NYFG freaking hit their WR like those guy's were never hit before and it affected them. The Bills were much more talented, they played like shite and still almost won the game.
Posted on 7/20/08 at 1:28 am to lbradysu
quote:
Who the Hell is VY?
Vince Young
Posted on 7/20/08 at 2:33 am to lbradysu
quote:
Better go back and research your football history there Naismith!
says the idiot who doesnt know who VY is.
Posted on 7/20/08 at 3:06 am to True Grit
As some have already said, the QB took way too many hits in the Run n Shoot. No straight drops, no max protect. Every play was 4-5 wides, every drop was a rollout (either side).
Now, I always thought the Run n Shoot was a great RUNNING scheme. You can't stack the box when you have to cover 4-5 wides. Barry Sanders used to run wild in that offense. Of course, short yardage is a problem with no TE or FB.
Now, I always thought the Run n Shoot was a great RUNNING scheme. You can't stack the box when you have to cover 4-5 wides. Barry Sanders used to run wild in that offense. Of course, short yardage is a problem with no TE or FB.
Posted on 7/20/08 at 10:49 am to StatMaster
The run and shoot was very successful in the NFL when teams ran it. The Patriots essentially ran a version of the run and shoot/spread system this year. The Colts ran an offense that is very similar to the spread.
Variations of the spread are in the NFL and have been for a couple of decades, and they have run it with success.
Variations of the spread are in the NFL and have been for a couple of decades, and they have run it with success.
Posted on 7/20/08 at 10:52 am to lbradysu
quote:
By the way genius VIRGINIA TECH was not A SPREAD TEAM WHEN VICK PLAYED THERE. I based football team. Better go back and research your football history there Naismith!
Moron, the Falcons ran a spread option with Vick, and he had a great deal of success with it.
Posted on 7/20/08 at 10:55 am to H-Town Tiger
quote:
But both offenses were ultimately shut down in the playoffs. What Bellichik and Parcells showed in SB 25, is you hit the WR and QB enough that o is not effective. In the NFL the defenses are just too fast. It will win some games and post some nice stats, but the chuck and duck will not win the SB
Houston lost to Buffalo because of a defense and special teams collapse. I don't call scoring 32 points in a playoff game at Rich Stadium "getting shut down".
The Falcons made a 1000 yard rusher out of Ironhead Heyword with the run and shoot. They also had THREE 1000 yard receivers in that system that year.
That's the offense working in the NFL. The problem with run and shoot teams in the NFL is that the coaches who installed them failed to hire a decent defensive co-ordinator, which meant that they neglected that side of the ball. In the NFL you need to be a complete team to win.
BTW, the Colts run a version of the spread, as did the Pats this year.
Posted on 7/20/08 at 10:55 am to StatMaster
some teams do run little spread option plays. the jets, titans, and vikings have all started
i think it's worries over QB health and stubborn OCs, but when i see these teams run the spread option, it isn't as effective. it isn't just the speed of the NFL, it's the ability to diagnose plays more quickly in the NFL
i think it's worries over QB health and stubborn OCs, but when i see these teams run the spread option, it isn't as effective. it isn't just the speed of the NFL, it's the ability to diagnose plays more quickly in the NFL
Posted on 7/20/08 at 10:58 am to Sophandros
quote:
The Patriots essentially ran a version of the run and shoot/spread system this year.
they ran a spread, but not the run and shoot i don't think. the offense was based off the deep ball to moss, and the R/S was a much shorter-pass-based offense if memory serves
Posted on 7/20/08 at 11:11 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
they ran a spread, but not the run and shoot i don't think. the offense was based off the deep ball to moss, and the R/S was a much shorter-pass-based offense if memory serves
Thats why Wes welker had 110 grabs mainly off of short bubble screens, quick slants, short drags, and flare outs?
This post was edited on 7/20/08 at 11:12 am
Posted on 7/20/08 at 11:20 am to StrongSafety
when you have a deep passing threat like moss (and stallworth to a lesser extent), the short passes open up
chris carter put up great stats on the vikings in 98 and that wasn't even a spread. the same concepts applied
chris carter put up great stats on the vikings in 98 and that wasn't even a spread. the same concepts applied
Posted on 7/20/08 at 11:22 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
chris carter put up great stats on the vikings in 98 and that wasn't even a spread. the same concepts applied
Well, Chris Carter was one of the best possession receivers in the league at that time as well though.
Posted on 7/20/08 at 12:28 pm to Sophandros
quote:
Houston lost to Buffalo because of a defense and special teams collapse. I don't call scoring 32 points in a playoff game at Rich Stadium "getting shut down".
If that was the only playoff game they lost, you would be correct, but I didn't mention that game. Look at the KC game a year later, Moon fumbled 5 times cause he kept getting hit, KC had 2 elite pass rushers. Look at the SB this year, NE played a team with a good DL, look at Indy vs. Pitt in 05 and SD this year.
The chuck and duck did a lot better than a lot of people, myself included have given it credit for, but good pass rushes and aggressive D seems to disrupt it at the highest level.
Posted on 7/20/08 at 12:49 pm to H-Town Tiger
quote:
The chuck and duck did a lot better than a lot of people, myself included have given it credit for, but good pass rushes and aggressive D seems to disrupt it at the highest level.
I know what you mean, but I feel in the Oilers prime years 91-93, the defense really let them down. The Denver collapase is overshadowed by the Buffalo debacle, but it was bad nonetheless. And even in that KC game, when the offense finally got it going and closed to within one, the defense couldn't hold. I remember 3rd and long deep in KC territory and the TE, one of those Cash brothers from UT, took it for long yardage essentially ending it.
Posted on 7/20/08 at 12:52 pm to StatMaster
this thread really needs to separate the 3 similar offenses
spread
option out of the spread
spread option
each 3 is different and very few teams run a real spread option right now
spread
option out of the spread
spread option
each 3 is different and very few teams run a real spread option right now
Posted on 7/20/08 at 1:17 pm to SlowFlowPro
When the Falcons ran the run and shoot, they had Haynes for the deep ball and Prichard and Rison in the slots for the short stuff.
Same thing.
Same thing.
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