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re: Why don't the Nats shut down Strasburg NOW
Posted on 8/15/12 at 9:25 am to LfcSU3520
Posted on 8/15/12 at 9:25 am to LfcSU3520
Oh I am in full agreement with you. They could have done this earlier perhaps more than once and been fine. I talked to my one pitcher buddy whose opinion I think is informed and he thinks the Nats are dumb too.
This post was edited on 8/15/12 at 9:26 am
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Posted on 8/15/12 at 9:58 am to Tiger1242
If y'all don't stop referring to the Nationals as a dynasty in the making I'm going to rip someone's fricking head off.
You don't shut down your ace .. especially not in the manner they are going about it. As an organization you owe too much to the fans, to Strasburg's teammates and to Strasburg himself to pull a stunt like this to protect his arm. You should have been doing that throughout the season or have a set game-plan to keep him available for the postseason.
Do you people throwing this "dynasty" word around understand how hard it is to win a World Series, let alone to win multiple? These aren't the NY Yankees or Boston Red Sox. Washington doesn't have an open checkbook.
You don't shut down your ace .. especially not in the manner they are going about it. As an organization you owe too much to the fans, to Strasburg's teammates and to Strasburg himself to pull a stunt like this to protect his arm. You should have been doing that throughout the season or have a set game-plan to keep him available for the postseason.
Do you people throwing this "dynasty" word around understand how hard it is to win a World Series, let alone to win multiple? These aren't the NY Yankees or Boston Red Sox. Washington doesn't have an open checkbook.
Posted on 8/15/12 at 11:14 am to GhostBuster6
This situation is crazy. You can't really shut him down now and then bring him back for the post season.
What I would do is just stretch out his time between starts down the stretch. Maybe pitch him something like every 7 games.
What I would do is just stretch out his time between starts down the stretch. Maybe pitch him something like every 7 games.
Posted on 8/15/12 at 11:16 am to beauchristopher
And yes they should have just started doing this since the All Star break.. and forget an actual innings limit number.
Posted on 8/15/12 at 11:22 am to Rohan2Reed
R2R,
Not claiming to be in a position to speak for the fanbase, I can say that I was expecting to be in fight for the wild card spot and not in contention for the best record in baseball. The plan to shut Strasburg down was well understood and was very similar to the one that had been followed (apparently with success) last season for Jordan Zimmermann (who although the loser last night to your Giants, is having a pretty good year).
So, I (and others like me) were accepting the shut down and looking toward "saving" Strasburg (on the basis of what was widely reported to be "current informed opinions on best medical practice for recovery from Tommy John surgery for pitchers under 25").
However, as sometimes happens, "next year came early." Knowing how much I relish LSU's 2003 BCS title and how much I regret last year's lost title opportunity (both of which were, in my mind, "a year early"), as a fan and season ticket holder I want to go for it. Seeing informed comments such as BMac's on this thread only make it more difficult to accept. But I don't think Strasburg is our best pitcher (or maybe our second best). I think the Nats could go far in the playoffs without Straburg and could also flame out early with him. Werth, Edwin Jackson and Michael Gonzales are the only regulars that come to mind with any meaningful playoff experience. So I'm not taking to the Nats boards crying out or calling the DC equivalents of Buddy Songy's show about it.
Here's Thomas Boswell's column from the Washington Post thatt includes Mike Rizzo's account of his discussion with Strasburg's dad on the point.
Bowsell column in Wash Post today
Not claiming to be in a position to speak for the fanbase, I can say that I was expecting to be in fight for the wild card spot and not in contention for the best record in baseball. The plan to shut Strasburg down was well understood and was very similar to the one that had been followed (apparently with success) last season for Jordan Zimmermann (who although the loser last night to your Giants, is having a pretty good year).
So, I (and others like me) were accepting the shut down and looking toward "saving" Strasburg (on the basis of what was widely reported to be "current informed opinions on best medical practice for recovery from Tommy John surgery for pitchers under 25").
However, as sometimes happens, "next year came early." Knowing how much I relish LSU's 2003 BCS title and how much I regret last year's lost title opportunity (both of which were, in my mind, "a year early"), as a fan and season ticket holder I want to go for it. Seeing informed comments such as BMac's on this thread only make it more difficult to accept. But I don't think Strasburg is our best pitcher (or maybe our second best). I think the Nats could go far in the playoffs without Straburg and could also flame out early with him. Werth, Edwin Jackson and Michael Gonzales are the only regulars that come to mind with any meaningful playoff experience. So I'm not taking to the Nats boards crying out or calling the DC equivalents of Buddy Songy's show about it.
Here's Thomas Boswell's column from the Washington Post thatt includes Mike Rizzo's account of his discussion with Strasburg's dad on the point.
Bowsell column in Wash Post today
Posted on 8/15/12 at 11:24 am to beauchristopher
Their GM comes off as childish. "it's my decision and my decision alone..no outside input from anyone will sway me, I'm going to do what I want and what I say goes."
If he shuts SS down completely and they choke down the stretch, he's fired. And that won't be his decision.
In the end...if it saves his arm, I guess it's worth it in the long run. It would definitely be a shame to have his career ruined..most casual fans won't see it that way though...."WE COULDA WON THE WERLD SERIESSS...WHAT A MORON!
If he shuts SS down completely and they choke down the stretch, he's fired. And that won't be his decision.
In the end...if it saves his arm, I guess it's worth it in the long run. It would definitely be a shame to have his career ruined..most casual fans won't see it that way though...."WE COULDA WON THE WERLD SERIESSS...WHAT A MORON!
This post was edited on 8/15/12 at 11:30 am
Posted on 8/15/12 at 11:26 am to Beltway Bengal
quote:
But I don't think Strasburg is our best pitcher (or maybe our second best).
Welp there goes anyone taking your opinion seriously.
Posted on 8/15/12 at 11:30 am to hiltacular
All I'm gonna say is this:
Flags fly forever.
Flags fly forever.
Posted on 8/15/12 at 11:32 am to hiltacular
Regardless if he feels Gio and Zimmerman are better, not having Strasburg in the playoffs will cost them a championship.
Stras has more K's and better ERA than Gio and he's been limited in his innings all season.. they rarely let him pitch past 6 innings.. even when he is dominating.
Stras has more K's and better ERA than Gio and he's been limited in his innings all season.. they rarely let him pitch past 6 innings.. even when he is dominating.
Posted on 8/15/12 at 11:33 am to Baloo
quote:
Flags fly forever.
Exactly, the whole idea behind "preserving his arm" in the first place is ridiculous.
The fact that they are throwing away a possible world series just adds fuel to the dumpster fire.
Posted on 8/15/12 at 11:34 am to Rohan2Reed
use him in middle relief, two or three innings twice a week.
just keep him loosened up for the playoffs.
just keep him loosened up for the playoffs.
Posted on 8/15/12 at 11:35 am to hiltacular
I'm a big fan of preserving his arm. I think people like Dusty Baker should've been sued for negligence for the way he threw arms on to the slag pile. But there's two huge factors here:
-- Teams should take advantage of their chances to win the World Series when they come
-- I'm not aware of any evidence that is the raw number of innings which lead to injury. when people talk of pitcher abuse, they tend to mean innings pitched in a particular start. Something at which the Nats are extremely careful.
-- Teams should take advantage of their chances to win the World Series when they come
-- I'm not aware of any evidence that is the raw number of innings which lead to injury. when people talk of pitcher abuse, they tend to mean innings pitched in a particular start. Something at which the Nats are extremely careful.
Posted on 8/15/12 at 11:38 am to hiltacular
quote:
Welp there goes anyone taking your opinion seriously
I don't think that opinion is as rare as you might think amongst those that watch every Nats game. I did not say that other pitchers on the staff had better stuff or higher ceilings or were more likely to have better careers in total. But as to the pitcher I would most want to start in a one game win-or-go-home situation in 2012, particularly at this stage of the seaon, Stras would be second or third on my list. If that discredits my opinion in your view, or of others on this board, so be it.
Posted on 8/15/12 at 11:40 am to Baloo
That sounds like a good point to me. Just an opinion and not scientific or anything but it just makes sense that it's best to let him pitch his 6 innings tops then get his weekly rest and go out there rested... than say if he was pitching full games every week and eventually over working his arm on a week to week basis.
I still say the actual innings total number is crap.
I still say the actual innings total number is crap.
Posted on 8/15/12 at 11:42 am to Beltway Bengal
quote:
I don't think that opinion is as rare as you might think amongst those that watch every Nats game. I did not say that other pitchers on the staff had better stuff or higher ceilings or were more likely to have better careers in total. But as to the pitcher I would most want to start in a one game win-or-go-home situation in 2012, particularly at this stage of the seaon, Stras would be second or third on my list. If that discredits my opinion in your view, or of others on this board, so be it.
This is like me saying I want Paul Maholm of the Braves to start over Tim Hudson bc Maholm has only allowed 8ER over his last 9 starts.
Posted on 8/15/12 at 11:51 am to hiltacular
quote:
This is like me saying I want Paul Maholm of the Braves to start over Tim Hudson bc Maholm has only allowed 8ER over his last 9 starts.
More implicit name calling. Anyway, I would take Hudson over anyone on the Nats staff in the situation I posited. I would also likely choose at least 3 Nats starters (including, of course, Strasburg) over Maholm in that situation, despite his recent success and SEC ties.
Posted on 8/15/12 at 12:54 pm to Baloo
quote:
-- Teams should take advantage of their chances to win the World Series when they come
absolutely. look at how many World Series titles the Braves won with Smoltz, Glavine and Maddux.
quote:
-- I'm not aware of any evidence that is the raw number of innings which lead to injury. when people talk of pitcher abuse, they tend to mean innings pitched in a particular start. Something at which the Nats are extremely careful.
I agree. Innings is a pretty terrible quantification to use to base shutting down a pitcher upon. What if he averages 15 pitches per inning? Plus every player's body is built differently.
Posted on 8/15/12 at 1:07 pm to Rohan2Reed
I had said before the season started that instead of limiting him to 160 innings, they should come up with a "total number of pitches thrown" number they wanted to avoid, and use that
not all innings are created equal
not all innings are created equal
Posted on 8/15/12 at 1:21 pm to beauchristopher
quote:
This situation is crazy. You can't really shut him down now and then bring him back for the post season.
yes you can. It happens ALL THE TIME. All it is, is going on the DL for a few weeks but without an injury. It's very simple.
Also, going to a 7 day rotation won't help because he won't miss enough starts because of it, and it also throws off everyone else's schedule.
Posted on 8/15/12 at 1:23 pm to motorbreath
quote:
I wanna be watching the moment he reaches 160 innings and gets pulled. I hope it's in the middle of an inning. Nothing malicious, I like strasburg, but that would be riveting TV.
How can he reach 160 innings in the middle of an inning?
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