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re: Who should the mavs get to help luka
Posted on 6/4/21 at 11:58 am to Hawgnsincebirth55
Posted on 6/4/21 at 11:58 am to Hawgnsincebirth55
No one is going to trade for Porzingis. 
0
Posted on 6/4/21 at 11:59 am to dukke v
Dame is untradeable. They might as well move the team if he's traded. There would be a mass revolt.
The Blazers are in a bad spot where they can't totally blow it up with 3-4 more years of peak Dame, but they aren't close to be good enough to win anything of importance. They will try to ship CJ, but he's got a massive contract also.
The Blazers are in a bad spot where they can't totally blow it up with 3-4 more years of peak Dame, but they aren't close to be good enough to win anything of importance. They will try to ship CJ, but he's got a massive contract also.
Posted on 6/4/21 at 12:03 pm to usc6158
The blazers need a top 5 draft pick
Posted on 6/4/21 at 12:05 pm to Mingo Was His NameO
quote:
This is the important part
Of course. He was always a risk of a signing b/c of the type of injury he was coming off of when Dallas traded for him but it was 100% worth the risk.
quote:
And guys his size don't find better legs as they age.
Better legs, no. But they can develop their body and game to better use their strengths. At 25 Dirk was still essentially a face up stretch 4 and had yet to develop his deadly high post game and one legged fade. Dirk's greatest strength at that point was being able to break a defense by pump faking a PF or C from the perimeter and then driving for a dunk. This forced teams to put quicker SFs on him which in turn created mismatches for other players.
KP's current game is very similar to that at this point. The biggest difference is he is playing w/Luka who looks to score while Dirk had Nash who looked to pass and the obvious injury issues that have hurt his ability to develop things like his dribbling skills, back the basket footwork, and passing out of a double team.
Also, I must again point out that the Clippers are the worst possible match up for KP. They are able to put 3 SFs (going by traditional sizes) on the court at the same time who can stay in front of KP and so he can't really use his ability to drive in this series. It would be like if 25 year old Dirk was having to go up against 3 Bruce Bowens all at once. At that point one Bowen made Dirk work his arse off. 3 Bowens at once probably would have been able to take away Dirk's ability to drive completely and w/Luka being a scoring monster as opposed to Nash who was always looking to pass before he would look to shoot KP is going to get minimized a hell of a lot more in this series.
If KP could develop his game to where he can work the high post like prime Dirk he'd be able to fight through what the Clippers are doing to him. He just hasn't be able to begin to develop that kind of play b/c he's been hurt so much. He still has time to do it but that's all going to come down to staying healthy.
This post was edited on 6/4/21 at 12:11 pm
Posted on 6/4/21 at 12:10 pm to Boomshockalocka
Who cares what their ceiling is. Can he play or not and is he a star? Put him on the Knicks. He is their star and they just might knock off the Hawks. He is totally worth the money then. Not everybody is going to win Championships or play for great teams. But there is a premium on what he does. He earns his contract.
The fact that people are lauding Paul, who is a lesser player than Westbrook playing on a loaded team, and tearing down Westbrook just shows you how screwed up perception has become. Paul went to the Thunder and carried them to the playoffs (with huge help from SGA and Adams). He gets props all day and sent to the ideal situation. Westbrook goes to one of the worst teams in the league and does the same thing, he gets crapped on. It doesn't make any sense..
The fact that people are lauding Paul, who is a lesser player than Westbrook playing on a loaded team, and tearing down Westbrook just shows you how screwed up perception has become. Paul went to the Thunder and carried them to the playoffs (with huge help from SGA and Adams). He gets props all day and sent to the ideal situation. Westbrook goes to one of the worst teams in the league and does the same thing, he gets crapped on. It doesn't make any sense..
Posted on 6/4/21 at 12:10 pm to brmark70816
quote:
He has a monster contract. But it is far from bad
The fact that the only player in the league he could be traded for is John Walls also terrible contract means this is not the case
I agree he plays his arse off, but that doesn’t always include doing the things he should do to be a winning basketball player. You can be good and also have a bad contract
Posted on 6/4/21 at 12:10 pm to Dr RC
quote:
At that point one Bowen made Dirk work his arse off.
Bruce Bowen is the only man I ever saw block Dirk's wrong legged fadeway. That guy is such an underrated player because he had no offense, but he was an all-time defensive specialist that could guard damn near any person on the court extremely well.
Posted on 6/4/21 at 12:14 pm to Stuckinthe90s
quote:
Bruce Bowen is the only man I ever saw block Dirk's wrong legged fadeway. That guy is such an underrated player because he had no offense, but he was an all-time defensive specialist that could guard damn near any person on the court extremely well.
Bowen was actually a major reason why Dirk developed that shot. Bowen was notorious for stepping under a player's foot while they were in the air on a normal jumper. Dirk got sick of rolling his ankle on Bowen's foot and worked on the one legged fade as a way to create space and avoid get stepped under.
Posted on 6/4/21 at 12:15 pm to brmark70816
quote:
Who cares what their ceiling is. Can he play or not and is he a star? Put him on the Knicks. He is their star and they just might knock off the Hawks. He is totally worth the money then. Not everybody is going to win Championships or play for great teams. But there is a premium on what he does. He earns his contract.
I mean I’m not saying he should pay back his contract or anything but if you’re a team trying to win a title, Westbrook likely isn’t getting you there and no one is going to take him off your hands because of how bad the contract is
quote:
The fact that people are lauding Paul, who is a lesser player than Westbrook playing on a loaded team, and tearing down Westbrook just shows you how screwed up perception has become. Paul went to the Thunder and carried them to the playoffs (with huge help from SGA and Adams). He gets props all day and sent to the ideal situation. Westbrook goes to one of the worst teams in the league and does the same thing, he gets crapped on. It doesn't make any sense..
Paul got sent to the good teams because he was a positive asset who plays a style that helps develop and improve young players ability. A team like the Suns don’t mind his contract because he makes them better and fits in with their style of play.
Westbrook plays to get triple doubles and be the man. If he were as good as you are describing him, then there would be contenders pursuing him.
ETA also your Paul point doesn’t even make sense because Paul was trading for Westbrook, simply because both had two god awful contracts. Paul went to a team who was actively tanking and made them a decent team. Calling OKC the ideal situation for Paul is fricking hilarious
Westbrook went to a team with a top 5-10 player and made them worse.
Thus Paul’s value went up and Westbrook’s value stayed one of the worst in the league
This post was edited on 6/4/21 at 12:22 pm
Posted on 6/4/21 at 12:22 pm to Hawgnsincebirth55
Julius Randle or Kyle lowery
Posted on 6/4/21 at 12:29 pm to brmark70816
quote:
He is their star and they just might knock off the Hawks. He is totally
No they wouldn’t. Westbrook has never won a single playoff series unless he has harden or Durant. Two of the best players. Russ couldn’t win even one playoff series with Beal, Pg, or oladipo.
it is a heck of a lot easier to make the playoffs in the east than in the west. Washington won at a 38 win pace, that is not good at all when you have two all stars. You just can’t win in today’s nba w russ. Unless you have a harden or some other elite player to carry the team. He does t play winning basketball.
Posted on 6/4/21 at 12:43 pm to Boomshockalocka
Everybody keeps trying to throw that as a trump card, that he isn't a winner. I don't really care about that and it doesn't determine his value. But he has played in 111 playoff games and been in the playoffs 11 out of 13 seasons. Hardly a bum.
He keeps getting put with these "Superstars", that he is supposed to help. But they have all turned out to be secondary players and they didn't live up to the hype. That isn't Westbrooks fault. He is doing what he knows to do.
He keeps getting put with these "Superstars", that he is supposed to help. But they have all turned out to be secondary players and they didn't live up to the hype. That isn't Westbrooks fault. He is doing what he knows to do.
Posted on 6/4/21 at 12:45 pm to brmark70816
quote:
Everybody keeps trying to throw that as a trump card, that he isn't a winner. I don't really care about that and it doesn't determine his value. But he has played in 111 playoff games and been in the playoffs 11 out of 13 seasons. Hardly a bum.
No one is saying he’s a bum.
Simply saying he has a contract that far outweighs his value
It’s really not a hard concept. You may be the only person not named Westbrook that doesn’t think his contract is a bad one.
quote:
He keeps getting put with these "Superstars", that he is supposed to help. But they have all turned out to be secondary players and they didn't live up to the hype. That isn't Westbrooks fault. He is doing what he knows to do
Because the contenders aren’t trying to trade for him.
He will toil around with mediocre to bad teams until he’s either a hell of a lot cheaper or plays a different brand of offensive basketball
This post was edited on 6/4/21 at 12:46 pm
Posted on 6/4/21 at 12:54 pm to brmark70816
Westbrook is so far below average at shooting the ball, and shoots so much that you have to have elite support around him or his teams offense will be very very poor. He singlehandely makes an elite offense just a good one bc he is so Inefficent. Yes he plays hard. We get that. But he is just too much of a poor shooter. If he shot only 10 times a day it would be ok.
Posted on 6/4/21 at 12:54 pm to wildtigercat93
It is situational. Was he a star in OKC? After KD and before George, he was it and the team won. He was the whole show. As a marquee player on a competitive team, he is worth the super max money as the franchise player. He earned his deal. You put him on a bunch of other teams, he is their top draw, face of the franchise. He shows up, plays, puts up huge numbers and the team is competitive. Maybe they don't win rings, but that isn't everything and can't be how you evaluate a players worth. Location and circumstances matter.
Posted on 6/4/21 at 1:02 pm to brmark70816
quote:
It is situational. Was he a star in OKC? After KD and before George, he was it and the team won. He was the whole show. As a marquee player on a competitive team, he is worth the super max money as the franchise player. He earned his deal
I’m not arguing he didn’t earn that deal, or that he hasn’t accomplished a lot in this league
But your contract can absolutely age poorly based on your value, play, and age. It’s absurd to argue otherwise
Kevin love also “earned” his contract with the Cavaliers and it is also an albatross contract that no teams want.
quote:
He shows up, plays, puts up huge numbers and the team is competitive. Maybe they don't win rings, but that isn't everything and can't be how you evaluate a players worth. Location and circumstances matter.
Dude I’m not saying he’s worthless because he can’t win a ring. I’m saying because he limits your ability to win a ring, especially at that price tag, he is not valued by the contenders who want no part in him on their team with his current deal and play style.
You’re having two arguments at once here.
The league is telling you in bold letters how bad that contract is by what it is getting back in trades. He’s been traded twice in two years both times for similar terrible looking contracts.
Take a random player and do the same experiment.
Harrison Barnes on that GS team early on was nice. He was a shooter that could run around on defense and be a solid 4th piece to that team. On a rookie deal that gave them flexibility to sign a deep roster of vets
Now imagine that exact same Harrison Barnes on a max contract. He can’t win you a ring as a top 2 option and now that contract has limited how much you can improve your roster. Doesn’t seem so appealing now does it?
By your logic, Harrison Barnes is just as attractive of an option in both scenarios and his price tag has no impact in his value whatsoever.
ETA to put it even more simply, if Russ was an UFA right now, he wouldn’t sniff that contract value on a new deal
This post was edited on 6/4/21 at 1:08 pm
Posted on 6/4/21 at 1:14 pm to wildtigercat93
You are comparing Harrison to Westbrook?????? What a stupid take......
Posted on 6/4/21 at 1:15 pm to dukke v
quote:
You are comparing Harrison to Westbrook?????? What a stupid take......
No im trying to make a point that your contract has an effect on your value around the league.
Posted on 6/4/21 at 1:17 pm to wildtigercat93
Ok but there are ways around that..... if Westbrook had a chance to go to Dallas with a real good chance at a title he would restructure.......
Posted on 6/4/21 at 1:20 pm to dukke v
quote:
Westbrook had a chance to go to Dallas with a real good chance at a title he would restructure.......
No he wouldn’t
Also you can’t renegotiate contracts in the NBA like you can in the NFL, there’s a ton of rules you have to follow to change any players contract and one of those rules is the player can’t take a pay cut in order to circumvent the cap.
quote:
Can existing contracts be renegotiated? A contract for four or more seasons can be renegotiated after the third anniversary of its signing, extension, or previous renegotiation (if the previous negotiation increased any season's salary by more than 4.5%). Contracts for fewer than four seasons cannot be renegotiated. A contract cannot be renegotiated between March 1 and June 30 of any year. Only teams under the cap can renegotiate a contract, and the salary in the then-current season can be increased only to the extent that the team has room under the cap (and cannot increase the player's salary beyond the maximum salary). A renegotiation can only be used to provide a salary increase -- players can't take a "pay cut" in order to create more cap room for the team. If the player agrees to waive a portion of his trade bonus in order to facilitate a trade (see question number 99), his contract may not be renegotiated for six months following the trade. Every category of compensation (base salary, likely bonuses, and unlikely bonuses) that are increased in the renegotiated season must also increase in all subsequent seasons of the contract. Raises (and decreases) in subsequent seasons are limited to 7.5% of the salary in the first renegotiated season. A renegotiated contract can be extended simultaneously (see question number 60). If a player's contract is extended and renegotiated simultaneously in this manner, his salary may not decrease by more than 40% from the last season before the extension (after it is renegotiated) to the first season of the extension. For example, if the salary in the last season of a contract is renegotiated to $10 million and the contract is simultaneously extended, the salary in the first season of the extension cannot be less than $6 million.
This post was edited on 6/4/21 at 1:21 pm
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