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Where does Kershaw rank all time in terms of dominance?
Posted on 6/12/17 at 4:16 am
Posted on 6/12/17 at 4:16 am
I'm not talking longevity or accomplishments just pure stuff and ability wise where does Kershaw rank all time?
I'd say the only 2 better I've ever seen were Pedro and Randy Johnson
I'd say the only 2 better I've ever seen were Pedro and Randy Johnson
5
Posted on 6/12/17 at 6:02 am to Raghavan
Behind Pedro, who had the most dominant pitching peak of all time.
I would say top 10 pretty confidently. 2.36 career ERA is stupid good in this run environment.
I would say top 10 pretty confidently. 2.36 career ERA is stupid good in this run environment.
Posted on 6/12/17 at 8:18 am to Raghavan
In terms of WAR7, Kershaw is well behind Roger Clemens, Greg Maddux, Randy Johnson and Pedro Martinez and slightly behind Curt Schilling and Roy Halladay and those are just the pitchers from the last 25 years. The difference in WAR7 between Kershaw and Schilling/Halladay is mainly due to the sheer volume of innings pitched but I just can't see any argument for Kershaw being a more dominant pitcher than Clemens, Maddux, Johnson and Martinez. Clemens, Maddux, and Johnson put up better numbers than Kershaw while averaging more innings per year. And Pedro was simply the best pitcher ever at his peak.
Posted on 6/12/17 at 8:36 am to Bench McElroy
Why would you look at a WAR stat with a pitcher? Considering they pitch every 5 games and also have no control over run support. They already have a wins record, what is the point of "WAR" for a pitcher?
Posted on 6/12/17 at 8:38 am to Jack Daniel
WAR doesn't take into consideration wins and losses, it's all about the pitchers performance and what he can control.
Posted on 6/12/17 at 8:40 am to Jack Daniel
quote:
Why would you look at a WAR stat with a pitcher? Considering they pitch every 5 games and also have no control over run support. They already have a wins record, what is the point of "WAR" for a pitcher?
Do you understand what is used to calculate WAR? It has nothing to do with run support and is scaled to account for pitching every 5 days.
Posted on 6/12/17 at 8:52 am to DallasTiger45
No, actually I don't. I thought it stood for Wins After Replacement?
I have been around baseball my whole life, played from tball to college level and have never heard the term WAR until the last year or so on this board.
I have been around baseball my whole life, played from tball to college level and have never heard the term WAR until the last year or so on this board.
Posted on 6/12/17 at 9:20 am to Jack Daniel
Wins Above Replacement. It's attempting to estimate how valuable a player is compared to a replacement level player (think 25th man on a roster that shuttles between AAA and the big leagues). When it talks about "wins", it's not referring to actual on the field wins that a player participated in. It's looking at a player's individual performance and how much they'd contribute to a team's wins in a vacuum.
WAR Definition by Fangraphs
It's pretty crazy how you can play baseball for a long time without realizing that a lot of the guys teaching you the game are kind of lost, in a way. My college coach's infatuation with bunting drove me nuts, but he just didn't know any better.
WAR Definition by Fangraphs
It's pretty crazy how you can play baseball for a long time without realizing that a lot of the guys teaching you the game are kind of lost, in a way. My college coach's infatuation with bunting drove me nuts, but he just didn't know any better.
Posted on 6/12/17 at 9:21 am to Raghavan
He'll end up with 5 or more cy youngs. If he can keep this pace for 5 more years he can make a case for top 3 pitchers of all time.
Posted on 6/12/17 at 9:25 am to Raghavan
He's the best of his generation, that's a no brainier. What guys like Pedro and Maddox were able to do with 80% of players being juice monkeys is more impressive IMO.
Posted on 6/12/17 at 12:52 pm to Raghavan
Gotta stop shitting his pants in the postseason first.
Posted on 6/12/17 at 12:52 pm to PortCityTiger24
quote:
He's the best of his generation, that's a no brainier. What guys like Pedro and Maddox were able to do with 80% of players being juice monkeys is more impressive IMO.
How do we know they weren't juice monkeys too?
Posted on 6/12/17 at 12:56 pm to DallasTiger45
quote:and thats where we start talking about peak. kershaw had a 1999 pedro like season going last year until he got injured. but thats neither here nor there. pedro in 1999 and 2000 is probably the greatest two year stretch a pitcher has ever had. but i feel like wed be really hard pressed to find a pitcher who had a 6 year run that kershaw had between 2011 and 2016. clemens with the red sox had an insane 6 year run where he was getting 8+ wins on the reg
who had the most dominant pitching peak of all time.
This post was edited on 6/12/17 at 12:59 pm
Posted on 6/12/17 at 1:09 pm to Korin
quote:
How do we know they weren't juice monkeys too?
There were rumors that Pedro Martinez was on the infamous list of 104 players who tested positive for steroids in 2003...
Posted on 6/12/17 at 1:14 pm to WestCoastAg
Maddux from 92 through 98 averaged about 8 WAR
Posted on 6/12/17 at 1:16 pm to Sun God
randy johnson also had a crazy 6 year run with the diamondbacks
Posted on 6/12/17 at 1:33 pm to WestCoastAg
From 93-02 Johnson had 82 complete games and 36 shutouts in 297 starts .. Highest ERA was 3.67 in a shortened 96 and a 4.33 before being traded the the Astros
This post was edited on 6/12/17 at 1:36 pm
Posted on 6/12/17 at 1:38 pm to WestCoastAg
quote:
and thats where we start talking about peak. kershaw had a 1999 pedro like season going last year until he got injured. but thats neither here nor there.
Correct
quote:
pedro in 1999 and 2000 is probably the greatest two year stretch a pitcher has ever had.
Also correct
quote:
but i feel like wed be really hard pressed to find a pitcher who had a 6 year run that kershaw had between 2011 and 2016.
Kershaw has been fantastic, but I'll take Pedro with a better 7 year stretch.
Pedro 1997-2003 had an ERA+ of 213, while Kershaw's 2011-2016 ERA+ is 178. Their other stats are almost identical, which is another point in Pedro's favor because he pitched during the heart of the steroid era, as well as in Fenway against a DH for 6 of the 7 years.
Posted on 6/12/17 at 2:05 pm to DallasTiger45
Maddux had an ERA+ of 190 from '92 to '98 with a high of like 260.
Posted on 6/12/17 at 2:06 pm to VinegarStrokes
quote:
Maddux had an ERA+ of 190 from '92 to '98 with a high of like 260.
He is in the conversation for best peak for sure.
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