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re: Where does Derek Jeter rank on your all time SS List?
Posted on 5/16/17 at 4:46 pm to Bench McElroy
Posted on 5/16/17 at 4:46 pm to Bench McElroy
quote:Correct
WAR7 is the seven best WAR seasons by a player. Derek Jeter had a WAR7 of 42.2
This post was edited on 5/16/17 at 4:47 pm
1
Posted on 5/16/17 at 4:47 pm to Bench McElroy
Im using fangraphs which is a different number than baseball reference. Fangraphs doesn't value his play as much as baseball reference does. Even though I am riding the struggle bus right now and his peak WAR is actually 40.6 which is still short, but not by as much
This post was edited on 5/16/17 at 4:48 pm
Posted on 5/16/17 at 4:48 pm to bagNdrag
at the bottom........
Posted on 5/16/17 at 4:50 pm to lsupride87
Is WAR now everything?
Thank god football doesn't have such obsessive nerds.
Sabre-metrics has ruined good ol' fashioned...I know what I see when I see it.
Thank god football doesn't have such obsessive nerds.
Sabre-metrics has ruined good ol' fashioned...I know what I see when I see it.
Posted on 5/16/17 at 4:52 pm to SeeeeK
quote:
He was as clutch in playoffs with the stick as anyone ever. It was incredible the numbers he put up.
His postseason numbers are almost identical to his career numbers.
Career .310/.377/.440 (162 game avg) 15HR
Postseason .308/.374/.465 (158 games total) 20HR
Posted on 5/16/17 at 4:52 pm to mizzoubuckeyeiowa
quote:
Sabre-metrics has ruined good ol' fashioned...I know what I see when I see it.
That's awfully convenient when the actual numbers don't support your claim.
ETA: "I know they say 2 + 2 = 4, but I see 5, so frick the numbers"
This post was edited on 5/16/17 at 4:56 pm
Posted on 5/16/17 at 4:56 pm to bagNdrag
I remember an article in SI about 2000 or something where Jeter fans who saw him on the street called him a bum and said Nomar was way better.
And then they did one after the fact...
It's not difficult to believe that it has been more than a decade since the three top shortstops in baseball were considered to be Alex Rodriguez, Derek Jeter and Anthony Nomar Garciaparra.
A-Rod would have been the greatest shortstop in baseball history if he had not become a third baseman, but just how good was Garciaparra compared to Jeter?
Near the end of May 1998, Cal Riken Jr. was discussing how the shortstop position at the close of the 20th century had some of the greatest stars in the game. Most "experts" predicted that A-Rod, Jeter and Garciaparra would be shoo-in Hall of Famers
Jeter was the American League Rookie of the Year in 1996. Garciaparra won the award the next season.
All three reached the potential predicted, but only Garciaparra suffered severe injuries that forced him to move to other positions and cut his career short.
From his first full season in 1997 through his last season with the Boston Red Sox in 2003, Garciaparra hit .325 with a .372 on base average and a .557 slugging average. He averaged 24 home runs a year.
The great Johnny Pesky called him the greatest shortstop in Boston Red Sox history.
Interestingly, Garciaparra's .325 batting average is identical to Joe DiMaggio's lifetime batting average, while his .557 slugging average is identical to that of Mickey Mantle's.
From his first full season in 1996 through 2003, Jeter batted .318 with a .390 on base average. He slugged .462 and averaged 16 home runs a year.
Garciaparra has a big offensive edge over Jeter when one compares Nomar's first seven season's with Jeter's first eight.
Garciaparra batted .313/.361/.521 with an .882 OPS. He averaged 26 home runs a season.
Nomar Garciaparra was better than Derek Jeter until he suffered a series of injuries. Don Mattingly was better than a number of Hall of Fame first basemen until his injured back cut into his skills.
Injuries are part of the game. They are a part of life, but it cannot be denied that Nomar Garciaparra was well on his way to becoming the greatest shortstop of all time.
And then they did one after the fact...
It's not difficult to believe that it has been more than a decade since the three top shortstops in baseball were considered to be Alex Rodriguez, Derek Jeter and Anthony Nomar Garciaparra.
A-Rod would have been the greatest shortstop in baseball history if he had not become a third baseman, but just how good was Garciaparra compared to Jeter?
Near the end of May 1998, Cal Riken Jr. was discussing how the shortstop position at the close of the 20th century had some of the greatest stars in the game. Most "experts" predicted that A-Rod, Jeter and Garciaparra would be shoo-in Hall of Famers
Jeter was the American League Rookie of the Year in 1996. Garciaparra won the award the next season.
All three reached the potential predicted, but only Garciaparra suffered severe injuries that forced him to move to other positions and cut his career short.
From his first full season in 1997 through his last season with the Boston Red Sox in 2003, Garciaparra hit .325 with a .372 on base average and a .557 slugging average. He averaged 24 home runs a year.
The great Johnny Pesky called him the greatest shortstop in Boston Red Sox history.
Interestingly, Garciaparra's .325 batting average is identical to Joe DiMaggio's lifetime batting average, while his .557 slugging average is identical to that of Mickey Mantle's.
From his first full season in 1996 through 2003, Jeter batted .318 with a .390 on base average. He slugged .462 and averaged 16 home runs a year.
Garciaparra has a big offensive edge over Jeter when one compares Nomar's first seven season's with Jeter's first eight.
Garciaparra batted .313/.361/.521 with an .882 OPS. He averaged 26 home runs a season.
Nomar Garciaparra was better than Derek Jeter until he suffered a series of injuries. Don Mattingly was better than a number of Hall of Fame first basemen until his injured back cut into his skills.
Injuries are part of the game. They are a part of life, but it cannot be denied that Nomar Garciaparra was well on his way to becoming the greatest shortstop of all time.
Posted on 5/16/17 at 4:57 pm to slackster
And it's not like it doesn't usually back up the eye tests. For example, here is the top 10 for career WAR amongst position players:
Babe Ruth
Barry Bonds
Willie Mays
Ty Cobb
Honus Wagner
Hank Aaron
Tris Specker
Ted Williams
Rogers Hornsby
Stan Musial
Is that really an awful list?
Babe Ruth
Barry Bonds
Willie Mays
Ty Cobb
Honus Wagner
Hank Aaron
Tris Specker
Ted Williams
Rogers Hornsby
Stan Musial
Is that really an awful list?
Posted on 5/16/17 at 4:59 pm to SeeeeK
quote:
He was as clutch in playoffs with the stick as anyone ever. It was incredible the numbers he put up.
Maybe I'm wrong but I've always felt like his post season numbers pretty much stayed in line with his regular season numbers.
Also, the Yanks only won a single title with Jeter as the captain. He wasn't the dude leading those 4 outta 5 WS winners. That was guys like Bernie Williams, Paul O’Neill, and Tino Martinez.
shite, if you hack off 6 years of his long arse career, reduce the talent around him at the plate, and stick him on a far less popular team that doesn't win any titles like Texas, he may as well be a slightly better version of Micheal Young.
This post was edited on 5/16/17 at 5:01 pm
Posted on 5/16/17 at 4:59 pm to WestCoastAg
quote:
For example, here is the top 10 for career WAR amongst position players:
Yeah, but how did they make you feel? Where are the clutch stats??
Posted on 5/16/17 at 5:06 pm to Dr RC
Jeter was a very good postseason player, but yeah his stats pretty much stayed the same as the regular season.
Ironically, he was dubbed "Mr November" after his Game 4 HR in 2001, yet he batted .148 that Series, which the Yankees obviously lost.
Ironically, he was dubbed "Mr November" after his Game 4 HR in 2001, yet he batted .148 that Series, which the Yankees obviously lost.
Posted on 5/16/17 at 5:17 pm to mizzoubuckeyeiowa
quote:
Garciaparra has a big offensive edge over Jeter when one compares Nomar's first seven season's with Jeter's first eight.
And was a better fielder than Jeter. Nomar was legit as hell.
Posted on 5/16/17 at 6:57 pm to bagNdrag
Probably top 10. He should be rewarded for his long career even if his peak is probably just outside the top 10 SS.
Posted on 5/16/17 at 7:03 pm to Dr RC
quote:
Maybe I'm wrong but I've always felt like his post season numbers pretty much stayed in line with his regular season numbers.
This isn't the case for a lot of guys though
Posted on 5/16/17 at 7:10 pm to bagNdrag
#1 in my book
#3 really (behind Honus Wagner and Ozzie Smith)
#3 really (behind Honus Wagner and Ozzie Smith)
Posted on 5/16/17 at 7:12 pm to bagNdrag
quote:
Top 5 maybe
Not maybe, not at all.
Posted on 5/16/17 at 7:13 pm to lsupride87
I know this is off topic, but I just looked this up and it's ridiculous.
Mike Trout is 25 and in his 6th full season in the majors. He's already at 6th in WAR7 for center fielders. That's counting a 0.7 WAR cup of coffee and his current 2.7 for this year. Insane.
Mike Trout is 25 and in his 6th full season in the majors. He's already at 6th in WAR7 for center fielders. That's counting a 0.7 WAR cup of coffee and his current 2.7 for this year. Insane.
Posted on 5/16/17 at 8:18 pm to OneMoreTime
If Mike Trout can stay healthy and play for another 15 years, his name will be mentioned with the GOATs....unless he falls off a cliff.
Posted on 5/16/17 at 8:41 pm to bagNdrag
All time best SS that I would want on my team is Ripken. Good to very good hitter, great defense , great leader and he will be there everyday. Jeter was great and Ozzie was a little limited on offense.
Jeter and Ripken are 1 and 1A. Would take either one
M
Jeter and Ripken are 1 and 1A. Would take either one
M
Posted on 5/16/17 at 8:41 pm to bagNdrag
Does anybody honestly rank Jeter Top 5 at his position all-time?
Or is it just popular, he just retired talk? Our brains think the last time we saw anything was the GOAT?
Or is it just popular, he just retired talk? Our brains think the last time we saw anything was the GOAT?
This post was edited on 5/16/17 at 8:42 pm
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