- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: What separates Derek Jeter from Craig Biggio? Is it only rings?
Posted on 2/14/14 at 1:09 pm to Lester Earl
Posted on 2/14/14 at 1:09 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
All of a sudden he was hitting 20 HRs on the reg on a team filled with notorious steroid users(caminiti, bagwell, finley, gonzalez)
First off, Biggio had a 13 HR year in his second season (only palyed 134 games). So I'm not really sure how "all of a sudden hitting 20" is a sure indicator of PED use. In fact, I'm not really sure how you could look at his stats and go "oh yeah, definite PED user". Like most players, he entered his prime in his mid 20s, had an obvious peak in his early 30s and his skills started to erode in his mid 30s. And he was also one of the most durable players of the 90s. Again, I'm not really sure where you would see the PED use.
I also like how you include Bagwell's name in that sure fire list of PED users. shite, at least add Clemens and Pettite. You also just completely ignore that Jeter played with even more known users.
This post was edited on 2/14/14 at 1:11 pm
2
Posted on 2/14/14 at 1:11 pm to ZTiger87
I don't think the steroid thing should really play a part for either of these guys.
Posted on 2/14/14 at 1:15 pm to ZTiger87
Jeter may have used, but he doesnt have the abnormal spikes Biggo had. Just the outlier season late in his career when he led the league in hits.
his 3 year HR total from age 24-26 is 14 total HRs.
By 27 he was hitting 20 HRs and 40 doubles a year.
Yea, not fishy at all.
quote:
Like most players, he entered his prime in his mid 20s
his 3 year HR total from age 24-26 is 14 total HRs.
By 27 he was hitting 20 HRs and 40 doubles a year.
Yea, not fishy at all.
Posted on 2/14/14 at 1:25 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
By 27 he was hitting 20 HRs and 40 doubles a year.
Why the fk would that be fishy after he hit 13 in his second season? We're talking about 20-22 hrs 5 times in 9 seasons. Was it suspicious that Joe Morgans first 20+ hr season was at the age of 29? What about Roberto Alomar? 5 seasons of under 10 HRs, then he hits 17? Then from age 28-33 he averages 19 hrs a year after hitting under 10 in 6 of his first 7 seasons? Roids. Gotta be.
Posted on 2/14/14 at 1:27 pm to BayouBengals03
quote:
Paul Molitor was a first-ballot Hall of Famer
Why is Molitor so loved? He gets none of the backlash that came from the cocaine trials in Pittsburgh, yet he was an admitted user. But you use a "PED" you are blackballed.
As with Raines, who admitted to sliding head first so he wouldnt break the vial of coke he had in his pockets.
This post was edited on 2/14/14 at 1:28 pm
Posted on 2/14/14 at 1:33 pm to ZTiger87
quote:
What about Roberto Alomar? 5 seasons of under 10 HRs,
and he was still DOUBLING Biggio's totals. Think about that
Morgan hit 14 and 15 in his first 2 full seasons in the league. And obviously went to a better lineup once he went to Cincy
Posted on 2/14/14 at 1:53 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
and he was still DOUBLING Biggio's totals. Think about that
Yes, lets ignore Alomar's "power spike". In fact, lets just ignore that Biggio's career is pretty fking similar to some of the best 2b that ever played.
quote:
Morgan hit 14 and 15 in his first 2 full seasons in the league
He hit 14 then hit 5 and 6 the following seasons. Oh shite, thats kind of exactly like Biggio. Joe must have been getting injections from a baby Ken Caminiti.
This post was edited on 2/14/14 at 1:56 pm
Posted on 2/14/14 at 2:05 pm to ZTiger87
quote:
then hit 5 and 6 the following seasons.
didnt even have 500 ABS either season. 122 & 133 games played
quote:
Yes, lets ignore Alomar's "power spike". In fact, lets just ignore that Biggio's career is pretty fking similar to some of the best 2b that ever played.
it wasn't much of a spike. He had three 20 HR seasons in 17 years.
Biggio had 8
Posted on 2/14/14 at 2:13 pm to Lester Earl
Biggio to me is not a HOF, just going by my standard.
He was not the best player at his position for the time he played. He did not make me want to watch him play, just on own. My final reason that he is not a HOF'er is probably the most idiotic to some, but he alone did not make the Astros a good/great team.
He was not the best player at his position for the time he played. He did not make me want to watch him play, just on own. My final reason that he is not a HOF'er is probably the most idiotic to some, but he alone did not make the Astros a good/great team.
Posted on 2/14/14 at 2:15 pm to BayouBengals03
quote:
If you think David Cone had more to do with the Yankees' resurgence than Derek Jeter then you really just need to give up now.
Dude had some kind of aneurysm in 1996 and missed the majority of the season. Jeter was Rookie of the Year and one of the top 4 hitters on the team.
And that was the first year they won.
From 1998-2000? You know, the years of the three-peat? Jeter was .337/.413/.505 with WARs above 7 in two of those years.
He was a great player in all the years that they won, as well as the leader of the team by the end of the dynasty. To act like there's no chance he was one of, if not the biggest, reason for their resurgence (LOL at David Cone), you have to be a big time hater of the dude. It's asinine.
Trading for David Cone was the biggest reason they made the playoffs in 95 and yes he missed a chunk of the 96 season but when he played he played like an ace. He continued to be that ace for another 3 years winning 2 more WS.
Posted on 2/14/14 at 2:16 pm to sms151t
quote:
Biggio to me is not a HOF, just going by my standard.
He was not the best player at his position for the time he played.
and Jeter was?
Posted on 2/14/14 at 2:17 pm to VerlanderBEAST
they had a 13 year playoff drought between 1982 and Jeter's first year in the bigs. Coincidence?
Paul O Neil and Bernie Williams had been Yankees for years to that point.
Paul O Neil and Bernie Williams had been Yankees for years to that point.
Posted on 2/14/14 at 2:23 pm to VerlanderBEAST
That was not my whole argument was it?
Posted on 2/14/14 at 2:27 pm to VerlanderBEAST
quote:
Trading for David Cone was the biggest reason they made the playoffs in 95 and yes he missed a chunk of the 96 season but when he played he played like an ace. He continued to be that ace for another 3 years winning 2 more WS.
He pitched twice a series.
Williams, Jeter, O'Neill were on the field every single game.
You might be the only person on this planet who thinks David Cone was more valuable to the Yankees in the late '90s than Derek Jeter. Literally, the only person.
ETA: And that has nothing to do with David Cone. He was very good.
This post was edited on 2/14/14 at 2:28 pm
Posted on 2/14/14 at 2:37 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
his 3 year HR total from age 24-26 is 14 total HRs.
By 27 he was hitting 20 HRs and 40 doubles a year.
Yea, not fishy at all.
That is a normal development curve. That really isn't fishy at all, especially as you conveniently left off he hit 13 HR when he was 23. Did the roids just stop working when he was 24, only to kick back in at age 27?
Joe Morgan had 11 total HR from ages 22-24. at age 25, he hit 15. He'd hit 20 HR for the 1st time at age 29 with 26, and then hit 20+ for 4 of 5 years.
Lou Whittaker had 14 total HR from age 21-24, a four year stretch, before hitting 15 at age 25. He'd clear 20 at age 28 and spike to 28 at age 32.
Bobby Doerr had only hit 20 HR once in his career, and then hit 27 HR twice in three years starting at age 30.
Bobby Grich had never hit 20 HR in his career, and then hit 30 at age 30.
Toby Harrah hit a combined 13 HR in three years from ages 22-24, and at age 25 hit 20+. He'd hit 20+ for 4 of the next 6 seasons.
This kind of power spike is not uncommon for good players. It's not fishy at all.
Posted on 2/14/14 at 2:42 pm to tduecen
quote:
tduecen
Should I start a Yankees spring training thread?
Posted on 2/14/14 at 2:46 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
they had a 13 year playoff drought between 1982 and Jeter's first year in the bigs. Coincidence?
Paul O Neil and Bernie Williams had been Yankees for years to that point.
So you think the 15 games or whatever Jeter played had more to do with the Yankees making the playoffs than trading for an ace in David Cone did?
Posted on 2/14/14 at 2:48 pm to Baloo
quote:
Joe Morgan had 11 total HR from ages 22-24. at age 25
quote:
Lou Whittaker had 14 total HR from age 21-24,
quote:,
Toby Harrah hit a combined 13 HR in three years from ages 22-24
were not full time players at this point. Notice their HR spikes once they get full time ABs. Not a coincidence.
quote:
Bobby Doerr had only hit 20 HR once in his career, and then hit 27 HR twice in three years starting at age 30.
lol, he had a 16, 22, 18, 18, 17 HR seasons. 27 is not a spike. Especially when he did it another time after that.
quote:
Bobby Grich had never hit 20 HR in his career, and then hit 30 at age 30.
Not saying it has never happened in the history of baseball. But anytime it happens in the steroid era, it is suspicious
Brady Anderson
brett boone
steve finley
luis gonzalez
javy lopez
jay bell
etc etc.
all these guys were good, serviceable MLB players before their career years.. But you cant sit here and just say "This kind of power spike is not uncommon for good players. It's not fishy at all."
You probably don't even know it, but you are scared to even compare his spikes to players from his era. Why? Because you know better. You have to dig back to the 60's-70's for these seasons to have any authenticity. And even then, you are reaching big time.
This post was edited on 2/14/14 at 2:49 pm
Posted on 2/14/14 at 2:52 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
they had a 13 year playoff drought between 1982 and Jeter's first year in the bigs. Coincidence?
Well, yeah.
They also replaced 3/5 of the rotation (Rogers, Gooden, and Key for McDowell, Hitchcock, and Kenienicki). They also replaced FIVE of their eight starters in the field (DH stayed the same). Girardi for Stanley, Tino for Donnie Baseball, Duncan for Kelly, Gerald Willaims for Polonia, and Jeter for Fernandez.
But, yes, let's give all of the credit for the Yankees turnaround to starting Jeter. Not, you know, replacing over half of their starting lineup.
Posted on 2/14/14 at 2:56 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
didnt even have 500 ABS either season. 122 & 133 games played
1100 plate appearances vs 1200 for Biggio. Please try harder.
quote:
it wasn't much of a spike. He had three 20 HR seasons in 17 years.
He had 5 seasons of 17+ HRs in 13 full seasons. Biggio had 8 seasons of 17+ HRs in 17 seasons. Not much of a difference considering neither guy hit more than 26 HRs in a season.
quote:
Not saying it has never happened in the history of baseball. But anytime it happens in the steroid era, it is suspicious
Then why does Griffey get a pass? Arguably the best HR hitter of the steroid era. A large jump in HRs after 4 seasons in the majors and 2 seasons in the minors. Then after his peak he is plagued by injuries that aren't uncommon in PED users.
This post was edited on 2/14/14 at 3:00 pm
Page 6 of 8
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News