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re: .
Posted on 7/6/17 at 2:27 pm to David Ricky
Posted on 7/6/17 at 2:27 pm to David Ricky
quote:
Tim MacMahon?Verified account @espn_macmahon 7m7 minutes ago More Sources: The Mavs are in the process of finalizing a two-year, $10 million deal with Dirk Nowitzki. The second season will be a team option.
How much money is Cuban sliding him under the table?
If there was ever a time to give a guy a Kobe contract, this is it
1
Posted on 7/6/17 at 2:34 pm to wildtigercat93
Posted on 7/6/17 at 2:51 pm to Fat Bastard
quote:I said this:
Hayward barely better than Jae clam chowder???
quote:I'm not arguing that he's barely better, I'm arguing that the evidence suggests that difference is smaller than many seem to think, ESPECIALLY when accounting for the huge salary difference AND the loss of another player with value commanding a low salary (Olynk).
Hayward is better, but he's not that much better, especially at 4.5 times the salary
To highlight this, here are the estimated wins added over the last two seasons (averaged) using wins over replacement player (nased on box =/- and VORP), RPM Wins (based on real +/-), and win shares.
Season Wins Above Replacement Player (WARP)
Hayward--9.86
Crowder--6.62
RPM Wins
Hayward--9.90
Crowder--9.98
Wins Shares
Hayward--9.65
Crowder--7.00
Combined Averages
Hayward--9.80
Crowder--7.87
Advantage--Hayward +1.93
So Hayward is worth about 2 more wins per season, although that is partially a function of more playing time. Regardless, maybe he deserved it. Now here are their salary estimates for next year.
2017-2018 Estimated Salaries
Hayward--$32 million
Crowder--$6.8 million
Cost per win added using combined average
Hayward--$3.27 million
Crowder--$0.87 million
So while Hayward will likely add value, it's extremely cost ineffective.
Combined wing averages of other wing players
LeBron--18.12
Leonard--15.51
Durant--14.34
Butler--13.05
Antetokounmpo--11.21
George--10.29
So as you can Hayward is closer to Crowder than he is Lebron, Leonard, Durant, Butler. And he still provides less value than all of 6 players, and George has more career consistency and Antetokounmpo is only 22.
So maybe Hayward deserve the max, but I think in this situation, depending on the situation. I don't think this was one of they had to give up two younger players, with a combined value similar to Hayward, and at 1/3 the cost.
Now they would have been better getting George, and far better off getting Butler instead.
This post was edited on 7/6/17 at 2:53 pm
Posted on 7/6/17 at 2:55 pm to buckeye_vol
I think the largest flaw in your logic is that you're comparing Hayward's contract to Crowder's when they don't line up. Crowder's signed his in 2015 before the huge salary cap bump. If Crowder were on a market deal Hayward's comparative value would be more evident.
Posted on 7/6/17 at 3:02 pm to David Ricky
quote:
Posted by Fat Bastard on 7/4/17 at 8:36 pm to Fus0623
yes please atlanta take jae the master bricklayer off our hands!!!
quote:O that's great.
57% eFG
40% 3PT
61% TS
Is laying bricks per Fat Bastard from the internet
And while I may be overrating Crowder, relative to Hayward, it's asinine to call him a brick layer. He averaged almost 1.39 points per field goal attempts. The rest of the team averaged 1.27 points per attempt with an EFG% 52.5 of and TS% 56.7% of , and the league average is 1.24 points per attempts with an EFG of 51.4% and TS% of 55.2%.
So Crowder is a more efficient scorer than his team average and league average across the board, but the guy insulting NBA knowledge is calling him the "bricklayer."
Posted on 7/6/17 at 3:05 pm to Goldrush25
quote:I get why he is commanding a higher salary, and the salary cap circumstances, but that doesn't negate the difference in value.
I think the largest flaw in your logic is that you're comparing Hayward's contract to Crowder's when they don't line up. Crowder's signed his in 2015 before the huge salary cap bump.
Just like Curry's salary was lower because of his previous injuries and the salary cap situation, that didn't somehow make him less of a bargain ESPECIALLY since that was a major reason they could assemble the team.
So at the end of the day, regardless of what the factors contributing to the salaries, Hayward is making 4.5 times more than Crowder, while providing 1.5 to 2 times the value. Now maybe that increase in value is the tipping point, so it may be worth it in the end, but unless that happens considering the opportunity costs, it's a worse ROI.
And I think this is especially true because of the set-up of the team, IT being a high usage offensive player who is somewhat of a ballstopper, and a terrible defender. While Hayward will provide offensive value, I think their defense will get worse. Their offensive rating was 8th while their defensive rating was 13th so offense was less of a problem. And Crowder & Olynyk provided more defensive value than Hayward, especially since IT is going to take a lot of the shots away from teammates. These issues were evident in the Cavs series when they played better without IT.
But I do think Hayward is a great player (solidly within the top 30), although I think he became overrated during this free agency cycle. That being said, he's still not even close to as overrated as Wiggins is.
This post was edited on 7/6/17 at 3:14 pm
Posted on 7/6/17 at 3:38 pm to buckeye_vol
So bottom line, would you have held on to Crowder or sign Hayward?
Boston is better with Hayward and getting better is the goal at the end of the day. The value isn't always going to line up perfectly, because of reasons like the salary cap exploding last year.
You start winning, then hopefully the below market deals follow.
Boston is better with Hayward and getting better is the goal at the end of the day. The value isn't always going to line up perfectly, because of reasons like the salary cap exploding last year.
You start winning, then hopefully the below market deals follow.
This post was edited on 7/6/17 at 3:45 pm
Posted on 7/6/17 at 3:39 pm to c on z
Lol at the drawing of Chauncey
Posted on 7/6/17 at 3:42 pm to PrimeTime Money
quote:
Clutchfans investigators have now done some surveillance and have confirmed Carmelo is in Houston:
First thing he should do is take that hoodie off
Posted on 7/6/17 at 3:47 pm to buckeye_vol
quote:
I get why he is commanding a higher salary, and the salary cap circumstances, but that doesn't negate the difference in value.
Sometimes it's better to gain talent, even if you're losing value. A team of 5 Jae Crowders is enormous value, because of his contract, but it's not beating a team of 2 highly paid all-stars and 3 scrubs. Talent wins out in the NBA, a dollar is better than 4 quarters.
Posted on 7/6/17 at 3:47 pm to S
I haven't read any of this Crowder/Hayward thing but people make a way bigger deal out of Hayward because he's white. He's not a top 20 NBA player and thus, in my eyes, brings Boston no closer to a title this season.
I would argue that Boston and Utah were about the same level of team last year. Hayward did not lead that team to even 1 victory against Golden State and is probably not leading Boston to any more victories against Cleveland. Maybe if they traded Isaiah instead of their good wings. Lol.
I would argue that Boston and Utah were about the same level of team last year. Hayward did not lead that team to even 1 victory against Golden State and is probably not leading Boston to any more victories against Cleveland. Maybe if they traded Isaiah instead of their good wings. Lol.
Posted on 7/6/17 at 3:47 pm to S
Here we f'n go
quote:
Sports News @JSports_ent Source: Blazers, Rockets, #Knicks have engaged in early talks regarding a 3 team deal that could potentially send C. Anthony to Houston.
Posted on 7/6/17 at 3:50 pm to Fus0623
Rich keep getting richer
quote:
Clippers reach deal with EuroLeague star Teodosic
According to ESPN's Adrian Wojnarowski, the Clippers have agreed to a two-year, $12.3 million deal with international star Milos Teodosic. The Serbian guard has played professionally overseas since 2004, and was the FIBA Europe Player of the Year in 2010. He also helped lead Serbia to a silver medal at the 2016 Rio Olympics.
Posted on 7/6/17 at 3:52 pm to LSUTigKyl
quote:
would argue that Boston and Utah were about the same level of team last year. Hayward did not lead that team to even 1 victory against Golden State and is probably not leading Boston to any more victories against Cleveland.
This logic makes no sense
1.) Cleveland isn't GS. There's no correlation there. GS literally lost 1 game all post season. If that's your benchmark for making your team better than literally no one can get better
2.) if Utah and Boston are similarly talented, wouldn't common sense tell you that taking the best player from Utah and putting him on Boston would make them a hell of a lot better?
Posted on 7/6/17 at 3:53 pm to Fus0623
quote:
Here we f'n go
Please do this
ETA: I guess something like Anderson and unguaranteed contracts to the Blazers, Crabbe and Aminu to Knicks, and Melo to Rockets.
Maybe some picks involved somewhere.
This post was edited on 7/6/17 at 3:59 pm
Posted on 7/6/17 at 3:54 pm to Epic Cajun
My guess Portland would want to dump either Crabbe or Turner's contract.
Posted on 7/6/17 at 3:57 pm to wildtigercat93
Boston is talking about getting rid of 3-4 players from their team or more - Olynyk already gone - and probably Smart and Crowder will be also be gone. So they brought in Hayward at the expense of 3 key players of their rotation.
I guess I put GSW and Cleveland above other teams and more similar to each other. So I was measuring Haywards worth to what he did against GSW in relation to how he might help against Cleveland. He didn't strike me as a player that would lift a team to a higher level when watching him play the eventual champions. So in my opinion I don't think he will make an impact against the Cavs. I am not sure it was that hard to see this point.
ETA: When i say make an impact, I mean tilting the series. Obviously he will be a key contributor for Boston.
I guess I put GSW and Cleveland above other teams and more similar to each other. So I was measuring Haywards worth to what he did against GSW in relation to how he might help against Cleveland. He didn't strike me as a player that would lift a team to a higher level when watching him play the eventual champions. So in my opinion I don't think he will make an impact against the Cavs. I am not sure it was that hard to see this point.
ETA: When i say make an impact, I mean tilting the series. Obviously he will be a key contributor for Boston.
This post was edited on 7/6/17 at 3:59 pm
Posted on 7/6/17 at 3:57 pm to wildtigercat93
That dude also said he's overrated because he's white. That's hilarious.
He's a top 20 player in the league. He's in the tier 2 of two way players.
He's a top 20 player in the league. He's in the tier 2 of two way players.
Posted on 7/6/17 at 3:58 pm to LSUTigKyl
quote:I often find it just the opposite. White American players really have to earn respect in the league.
I haven't read any of this Crowder/Hayward thing but people make a way bigger deal out of Hayward because he's white.
Nobody talks about JJ Redick being a top 20 player and he was an amazing player coming out of college and he's had a good career in the league. Kevin Love in 2013 averaged 26.1 ppg and 12.5 reb, 4.4 ast, and shot 37% from 3 and a TS% of 59.1% as a PF/C. And people talk about him like he's some kind of joke.
The reason Hayward is talked about as a top 20 player in the league is because he's earned it.
Answer me this... how many games have you honestly seen Gordon Hayward play in the NBA in the past couple years?
This post was edited on 7/6/17 at 4:05 pm
Posted on 7/6/17 at 4:00 pm to Fus0623
quote:
My guess Portland would want to dump either Crabbe or Turner's contract.
I would guess one of Crabbe or Turner and probably one of Aminu or Harkless.
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