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Posted on 2/3/14 at 7:10 am to Urban OhiO
He definitely crapped the bad in a way that no all-time great should crap the bed. But I also can't get over how terrible the entire team looked, from the coaching staff on down. It was like they hadn't played in a month and built their game plan off of the wrong team's tapes or something. A comprehensive catastrophe across offense, defense, and special teams.
ETA: And why are people making excuses for Denver's defense? By the 12:00 mark in the second quarter, they'd already allowed about 150 yards and three scoring drives. Seattle had held the ball for 15 of the 18 minutes by that point. True, the offense was inept. But make a play. Force a turnover. Seattle's defense did it. Everyone owns some blame here, imo.
ETA: And why are people making excuses for Denver's defense? By the 12:00 mark in the second quarter, they'd already allowed about 150 yards and three scoring drives. Seattle had held the ball for 15 of the 18 minutes by that point. True, the offense was inept. But make a play. Force a turnover. Seattle's defense did it. Everyone owns some blame here, imo.
This post was edited on 2/3/14 at 7:17 am
Posted on 2/3/14 at 7:11 am to VerlanderBEAST
quote:
Thew difference between every other elite QB's individual performance in whatever you consider non big games vs Peyton's is greater than the difference between who ever you consider the greatest big game performance QB and Peyton's
you are really reaching here. Peyton Manning has a losing record in the playoffs. He has 6 turnovers, and just 3 TDs, in 3 Super Bowls. Peyton has thrown for a ton of yards in playoff games. But, he also turns the ball over way more than a ton of great QBs.
Posted on 2/3/14 at 7:15 am to hikingfan
quote:
His losses in the big games have as much to do with his teammates not showing up
Poor Peyton he actually had to take a few hits in the pocket last night. Imagine if other QBs in the league ever had to deal with that.
Got hit in the mouth and folded like a lawn chair.
quote:
His team's flailings
Yea Peyton missing open receivers and getting his guys killed on crossing routes all night is all on his team.
Peyton is a choke artist supreme. DWI.
The league changed the rules of the game for him and he still has performances like this.
Pathetic.
Posted on 2/3/14 at 7:21 am to hikingfan
Posted on 2/3/14 at 7:24 am to hikingfan
The "GOAT" scores more than one TD in each Super Bowl, even a loss.
Therefore Peyton is not the GOAT.
DWI
Therefore Peyton is not the GOAT.
DWI
Posted on 2/3/14 at 7:35 am to TN Bhoy
quote:technically, Peyton has thrown 1.67 TDs in each Super Bowl. It's just that the 0.67 was to the other team.
The "GOAT" scores more than one TD in each Super Bowl, even a loss.
Posted on 2/3/14 at 8:25 am to hikingfan
K
Posted on 2/3/14 at 8:33 am to BayouBengals03
quote:
His numbers plummet when he plays a really good, fast, and physical defense
Everyone's does.
Posted on 2/3/14 at 8:39 am to Sevendust912
quote:Yeah. That's true enough.
His numbers plummet when he plays a really good, fast, and physical defense
Everyone's does
But, his overall playoff numbers compared to his normal numbers are a HUGE drop off.
Such is not the case for others mentioned in the GOAT conversation.
Posted on 2/3/14 at 8:40 am to stout
Posted on 2/3/14 at 8:46 am to TN Bhoy
The "it" factor is one of the dumbest arguments in sports.
Posted on 2/3/14 at 8:47 am to Sevendust912
Posted on 2/3/14 at 8:48 am to hikingfan
Montana is the GOAT.
Won 4 super bowls with essentially 2 different 49er squads, the best SB performer in history, and came out of retirement after an injury and almost carried the sorry KC CHIEFS to the Super Bowl.
Won 4 super bowls with essentially 2 different 49er squads, the best SB performer in history, and came out of retirement after an injury and almost carried the sorry KC CHIEFS to the Super Bowl.
Posted on 2/3/14 at 8:48 am to BayouBengals03
quote:Not a moron, no. Just a little off. Here's why.
So if part of my criteria for judging a quarterback's legacy is their performance in big games, I'm a moron for letting his performance tonight affect my view on that subject?
Manning just lost the Super Bowl, which is the 2nd best possible outcome in the NFL and better than his average season (and better than the average season of any player, ever). To say that his legacy took a step back last night is to say that his legacy would have been better served by his not playing this season, and that just doesn't add up.
I'll use Who Wants To Be a Millionaire? as an analogy here, if you care to follow. If you answer a few questions correctly, you win $32,000. If you answer the next question incorrectly, you still get $32,000 (ie, you don't lose money). You didn't win $1,000,000 by any means, but you didn't lose money.
Last night Manning hoped to add "$1,000,000" to his legacy, but he has to settle for "$32,000."
Making the Super Bowl : Winning the Super Bowl :: $32,000 : $1,000,000
But the way you're saying it...
Making the Super Bowl : Winning the Super Bowl :: -$32,000 : $1,000,000
Posted on 2/3/14 at 8:49 am to Zamoro10
quote:This criminally undersells the adversity through which he had to go to return to his current form. The idea that he isn't mentally tough is absurd.
I sincerely believe, as great as he his and as smart mentally as he is, Manning isn't tough mentally.
Posted on 2/3/14 at 8:50 am to JBeam
Posted on 2/3/14 at 8:54 am to Zamoro10
quote:
The people in this thread who get it...get it.
I don't pretend to fully understand Manning's lack of the it...but it's there.
Manning face is more than a joke on the internet. Sadly, it's a legacy as well. That defines him to a degree...and I stress, to a degree.
But it's real. It can't be ignored or brushed off.
As Prime Time said: "Manning gets all the praise in the world during the regular season because it's his offense and he calls the plays and he runs the show and he makes the decisions."
"And then suddenly in the post-season, the media say's...not his fault, his team sucks."
Probably in the 70's/80's this holds water...but not today when the QB controls so much...and how friendly the rules are to him and his targets.
Manning didn't die valiantly tonight...for a guy who supposedly outthinks his opponents, he got outthunk and outplayed.
Magic, Gretzky, Jordan...it matters what you do when it matters.
If 4/5 guys in a room wouldn't pick Manning as their go to guy in the most important game...that is legacy.
This doesn't mean that Qbs who won multiple Super Bowls - but were medicore - are better than Manning.
This is about elite of the elite comparison.
Even before this game, I'd never choose Manning as my go to guy.
There is something amiss with him. I know he cares...but he's not out to prove anything...and it shows in the big games. He grew up Archie's son - adored. What does he have to prove?
I sincerely believe, as great as he his and as smart mentally as he is, Manning isn't tough mentally.
this is great. the only thing I would disagree with is this:
quote:
but he's not out to prove anything...and it shows in the big games. He grew up Archie's son - adored. What does he have to prove?
I think he knows about his legacy--and that the whispers throughout the years of him being a choke artist have slowly gotten louder with each additional shite-the-bed performance in a big game--and I think he has crumbled under the pressure of his continued failure in must-win games.
Everyone is riddled with pressure on the biggest stages...the best channel that pressure and win; people like Manning collapse under the weight of it and fail.
Posted on 2/3/14 at 8:56 am to MI LSU
quote:
I think he knows about his legacy--and that the whispers throughout the years of him being a choke artist have slowly gotten louder with each additional shite-the-bed performance in a big game--and I think he has crumbled under the pressure of his continued failure in must-win games.
Do you realize how hard it is to win a Super Bowl? Besides, Manning already has a SB ring, so it's not like his trophy case is empty.
His TEAM imploded last night, and certainly the coaches did as well. IDK what you expected from Manning when his receivers don't get open and he has no time to throw the ball.
Posted on 2/3/14 at 9:00 am to MI LSU
quote:Only five quarterbacks in history have won more of these games than he has won, and he isn't finished. If you count a playoff bye as a win, he's #4 all-time, and one more victory ties him at #3.
his continued failure in must-win games.
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