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re: The Golden Bear has spoken (RE: Tigers quest for 19)
Posted on 4/8/14 at 6:22 pm to BRgetthenet
Posted on 4/8/14 at 6:22 pm to BRgetthenet
quote:
Deep down, Jack knows the record is safe. He's just keeping it classy.
Wouldn't expect anything less from The Bear.
And Tiger should forget about 19 and worry about #15.
0
Posted on 4/8/14 at 6:25 pm to lsugolf1105
quote:
can't we just all agree that tiger could win with any swing or teacher out there??
the thing is he's won at a lower rate since changing coaches... so we can agree he'd win some... but not at the rate he did with butch
Posted on 4/8/14 at 6:28 pm to molsusports
Lot more variables than just a swing coach.
Posted on 4/8/14 at 6:31 pm to TequilaMockingBird
quote:
Look at DL3, Els, and Norman. They were all know for how "effortless" their swigs were. For the first two, their power accumulation came from how tall they were and the length of their swing arc. Tiger had this thing in his swing with Harmon where he violently snapped his left foot open to help clear his hips with the driver. That destroyed his knee. And I do believe that was a move that Harmon "installed". Even though all those guys were taught by Butch they were all different than Tiger
the reason tiger swings more violently is because he loves crushing the ball. don't blame the coach for that. Butch isn't the one who taught Tiger to swing that violently... based on the other players he's interacted with Butch does the opposite.
I don't see a big difference in frame between Tiger in Ernie, Phil, Greg, etc anyway. These are men of pretty near the same height.
Posted on 4/8/14 at 6:32 pm to bamafan425
quote:
Lot more variables than just a swing coach.
obviously. but saying he would have won at that incredibly high of a level without the coach that actually helped him win at that high of a level strikes me as really presumptuous.
We're talking about Tiger's early success after all. He was unbelievable for a while.
Posted on 4/8/14 at 6:36 pm to molsusports
He won at a higher rate with Haney than with butch. He also won at a ridiculous rate before butch. Yes he has not won as much with foley but this can be blamed on the injuries which is causing a lack of practice.
Posted on 4/8/14 at 6:50 pm to LSUGrad9295
quote:
Not necessarily because of this, but I wish there were more athletes like Jack Nicklaus, Tom Watson, etc. around. They were classy guys who played their game the right way and not in a "look at me" way. Those guys are a dying breed.
First off, you mention 2 guys in the same sport: the gentleman's sport. The same one that just recently had a guy lose a major (right?) based on a foul he applied to himself.
Second, there are quite a few athletes who still play this way, even in the nfl. Fitzgerald, Manning, witten, we have RB's who just put the ball down after a first down. Basically I think your full of it, these guys still exist. Are there fewer? Maybe, but the coverage is so vast of these athletes that their voice is much louder than in Nicklaus's day.
Posted on 4/8/14 at 6:53 pm to molsusports
Don't overlook the era in sports where Tiger was king. Steroids went vastly unchecked. Steroids were way ahead of the testing and it was easy to cheat.
I'm not saying with any degree of confidence that he's a cheater, I'm saying that I can't say with confidence that he isn't. Especially considering his decline
I'm not saying with any degree of confidence that he's a cheater, I'm saying that I can't say with confidence that he isn't. Especially considering his decline
Posted on 4/8/14 at 6:56 pm to molsusports
First Ernie and DL are both quite a bit taller and longer than Tiger. I don't know what Wikipedia says but Tiger is just short of 6' and Ernie and Davis are both 6'4 plus. And I have said thoughout the thread tiger is to blame his problems because of his length ego. I just believe Tiger's left foot snap was brought in by Butch even though TW was probably pressuring Butch for more distance. And that's not solely to blame for his knee issues. Don't forget how tough tiger trains. Hell, he did Navy Seals training for a while and supposedly thought about quitting golf to join the armed forces.
Posted on 4/8/14 at 6:57 pm to TexasTiger1185
Don't think steroids helped him win 4 majors in a row.
Posted on 4/8/14 at 6:59 pm to lsugolf1105
quote:
He won at a higher rate with Haney than with butch.
quote:
He also won at a ridiculous rate before butch.
1993-2004 butch was his coach right? I'm not sure what the he won at a ridiculous rate is supposed to mean really. Sure he was a great player in high school but he didn't enter college until 94.
Look at the Woods resume by majors:
With Butch (1993-2004):
1997 Masters Tournament
1999 PGA Championship
2000 U.S. Open
2000 The Open Championship
2000 PGA Championship
2001 Masters Tournament
2002 Masters Tournament
2002 U.S. Open
With Haney (2004-2010):
2005 Masters Tournament
2005 The Open Championship
2006 The Open Championship
2006 PGA Championship
2007 PGA Championship
2008 U.S. Open
With neither Butch nor Haney:
Zero majors
Tiger is probably the kind of guy who benefits substantially from a real coach with an ego - even though he doesn't care for that truth. FWIW, Butch's pairing with Woods is more impressive than Haney's IMO because Tiger was in high school and college the first part of the run and wasn't near his athletic prime as a golfer until the end of their partnership.
Posted on 4/8/14 at 7:02 pm to TequilaMockingBird
quote:
but Tiger is just short of 6'
no he's not, Els is an inch or maybe two inches taller. And stop ignoring Butch's pairing with other players like Leonard and Phil.
the violence of his swing is just a characteristic of Tiger. The other guys Butch coached just don't do that so you can't blame the coach when the player is the variable and the outlier.
Posted on 4/8/14 at 7:04 pm to lsugolf1105
Can you say it didn't?
Look at all the star athletes during that era, they all cheated.
Look at all the star athletes during that era, they all cheated.
Posted on 4/8/14 at 7:07 pm to molsusports
My point is that he won from age 2 to 38 at an unbelievably high rate. Hell he won over 20% of his tournaments last year and was hurt for half of it. I don't think the teacher matters that much. Tiger just likes to challenge himself and is always looking for ways to improve. Once he completely trusts his swing he dominates.
Posted on 4/8/14 at 7:09 pm to lsugolf1105
quote:
I don't think the teacher matters that much.
well then we obviously disagree. and IMO so do most pros who seek out the best coaches to increase their chances of winning majors.
Posted on 4/8/14 at 7:10 pm to molsusports
I would bet a large sum of money that Tiger is under 6'. And the easiest way to increase club head speed with a good player is to speed up his lower body. That's also why Tiger was always scared of being stuck with him. He was scared of that with Haney because Haney had his grip so weak and his shaft too flat. That's why he ended up with Foley, the most anti-stuck method on the planet.
Posted on 4/8/14 at 7:10 pm to TequilaMockingBird
quote:
I would bet a large sum of money that Tiger is under 6'
Nope
Posted on 4/8/14 at 7:11 pm to TexasTiger1185
Do you remember him in 2000-2001? He weighed like 150. Do you think he was on steroids when he won his 3 us juniors in a row? 3 us ams in a row?
if he ever did steroids they probably didn't help his golf game in any way.
if he ever did steroids they probably didn't help his golf game in any way.
Posted on 4/8/14 at 7:12 pm to molsusports
quote:
1993-2004 butch was his coach right
97 Masters and all the Am's and Junior Am's were before Butch
Posted on 4/8/14 at 7:13 pm to TequilaMockingBird
quote:
would bet a large sum of money that Tiger is under 6
Me too
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