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re: The ATL Thread 7/30: Braves acquire Matt Kemp
Posted on 7/30/16 at 9:08 pm to TheJones
Posted on 7/30/16 at 9:08 pm to TheJones
I said it was a solid deal if they were on the hook for ~$40M as was originally reported. I said it earlier on this page.
The fact that the Padres are not kicking in any additional money is a little perplexing imo.
Olivera
17: $6M
18: $6.5M
19: $7.5M
20: $8.5M
Kemp
17: $18M
18: $18M
19: $18M
The fact that the Padres are not kicking in any additional money is a little perplexing imo.
quote:
They acquire an OF with power that provided positive WAR in the meantime for the same $ for less years.
Olivera
17: $6M
18: $6.5M
19: $7.5M
20: $8.5M
Kemp
17: $18M
18: $18M
19: $18M
Posted on 7/30/16 at 9:14 pm to volfan30
Minus Olivera, we're getting Kemp for 8.5/year with potential for that to be lowered after a future trade.
Olivera money was already in the trash. In return, we got an above average outfielder that we're on the hook for 3 years for.
Again, it's nothing to write home about. I'm not saying we've won anything or that the Braves have fleeced the Pads. But the braves added power to a lineup that needed power using a player with $30m worth of dead money. The price is 2 guys that suck now.
Again, it's no jewel. But if you're upset over it then it's time to sign off for the night and go to bed
Olivera money was already in the trash. In return, we got an above average outfielder that we're on the hook for 3 years for.
Again, it's nothing to write home about. I'm not saying we've won anything or that the Braves have fleeced the Pads. But the braves added power to a lineup that needed power using a player with $30m worth of dead money. The price is 2 guys that suck now.
Again, it's no jewel. But if you're upset over it then it's time to sign off for the night and go to bed
This post was edited on 7/30/16 at 9:15 pm
Posted on 7/30/16 at 9:14 pm to TheJones
The players they traded weren't good but it wasn't a good use of assets. Peraza was turned in to Trayce Thompson and Wood certainly has solid value.
A 31 year old Cuban with no track record, a torn UCL and no position was a pretty terrible target.
That deal necessitated (if you believe we couldn't just eat Olivera's smaller contract) this one which has caused us to commit $50M to an average OF for the next 3 years in the middle of a re-build.
A 31 year old Cuban with no track record, a torn UCL and no position was a pretty terrible target.
That deal necessitated (if you believe we couldn't just eat Olivera's smaller contract) this one which has caused us to commit $50M to an average OF for the next 3 years in the middle of a re-build.
Posted on 7/30/16 at 9:16 pm to TheJones
My question is why not just cut Olivera and be done with it. What's the purpose of acquiring Kemp for the next 3 years at $8.5M a year?
Posted on 7/30/16 at 9:19 pm to volfan30
Olivera trade was the product of poor scouting. He was worth the price if he stuck at 3B for the scouting reports that multiple teams believed in.
You seem to not understand that some prospects don't turn out. I hate to be the one that informs you that most our top 30 milb guys will make no impact on the MLB roster.
Again, all of these trades have minimal impact on our roster for the years we are dealing with. We're talking about money we have to spend in years that we're not contending. We aren't a team that can just save money and inflate payroll later. That's not the agreement that we have with Liberty
You seem to not understand that some prospects don't turn out. I hate to be the one that informs you that most our top 30 milb guys will make no impact on the MLB roster.
Again, all of these trades have minimal impact on our roster for the years we are dealing with. We're talking about money we have to spend in years that we're not contending. We aren't a team that can just save money and inflate payroll later. That's not the agreement that we have with Liberty
Posted on 7/30/16 at 9:20 pm to TheJones
quote:
You seem to not understand that some prospects don't turn out. I hate to be the one that informs you that most our top 30 milb guys will make no impact on the MLB roster.
Lol Jesus Christ
Bye
Posted on 7/30/16 at 9:21 pm to volfan30
quote:
What's the purpose of acquiring Kemp for the next 3 years at $8.5M a year?
He's worth around that much for his current production. He's making less than Markakis essentially. The braves are basically thinking that his current production + upside if he performs better is worth more to the organization while we're not contending than just cutting Olivera.
This post was edited on 7/30/16 at 9:22 pm
Posted on 7/30/16 at 9:23 pm to volfan30
Sorry about your signed Peraza poster. I'm sure it meant a lot to you
He sucks
He sucks
Posted on 7/30/16 at 9:24 pm to TheJones
John Hart being interviewed now saying that we still have plenty of cap flexibility, so rest easy.
Posted on 7/30/16 at 9:26 pm to SumterCoDawg
All of the money we're talking about is money we use or lose. We're not contending and next year's FA class is underwhelming.
This trade, as well as the initial Olivera trade, is small potatoes. Unless you have a signed Peraza poster. Then it's a BFD
This trade, as well as the initial Olivera trade, is small potatoes. Unless you have a signed Peraza poster. Then it's a BFD
Posted on 7/30/16 at 9:27 pm to volfan30
Send Kemp, the $10.5 mill from La thru SD, and $12-18 million to an AL team for a solid prospect. Saves money that would have been wasted on Olivera
Posted on 7/30/16 at 9:31 pm to TheJones
I hated Peraza for the same reason I hate Matt Kemp, he doesn't take walks.
That doesn't change the fact that we traded him for a $30M 31 year old when he fetched a controllable Trayce Thompson 4 months later.
Not sure if you knew this or not, but prospects have trade value. The Braves could probably trade Kolby Allard and Dansby Swanson for something pretty good tomorrow. They may never play a game in the big leagues but you can still trade them for guys who are in the big leagues right now. Shocking, huh?
That doesn't change the fact that we traded him for a $30M 31 year old when he fetched a controllable Trayce Thompson 4 months later.
Not sure if you knew this or not, but prospects have trade value. The Braves could probably trade Kolby Allard and Dansby Swanson for something pretty good tomorrow. They may never play a game in the big leagues but you can still trade them for guys who are in the big leagues right now. Shocking, huh?
Posted on 7/30/16 at 9:38 pm to volfan30
Shocking? Not at all.
You're upset about a series of trades that matter so little. We agree on the same principles but you're magnifying your feelings in a way that I can't relate to.
Maybe if we were talking about real prospects like Swanson or Allard. But at the end of the day we're talking about a AAAA player who's value is speed but can't get on base plus a pitcher with dipping velo and currently on the DL.
You're upset about a series of trades that matter so little. We agree on the same principles but you're magnifying your feelings in a way that I can't relate to.
Maybe if we were talking about real prospects like Swanson or Allard. But at the end of the day we're talking about a AAAA player who's value is speed but can't get on base plus a pitcher with dipping velo and currently on the DL.
Posted on 7/30/16 at 9:40 pm to volfan30
I bet you were a big Jair Jurjjens fan.
Posted on 7/30/16 at 9:40 pm to TheJones
quote:Yeah I can really only see us going hard after a catcher this year but thats about it. Our roster is full of, and will continue to be full of, young cheap players with a lot of team control. That will only be more true as we start working in more young guys, point being that we don't need tons of excess cap flexibility right now.
We're not contending and next year's FA class is underwhelming.
Posted on 7/30/16 at 9:46 pm to SumterCoDawg
We have to address catcher. I'm about as confident in Flowers' production this year as I was AJP's last year.
I think 3B is fine. I'm not a big Ruiz fan but I think he can provide replacement level for a few years.
Our outfield needs work. We shouldn't use Markakis and Kemp both for too long. One has to go for Smith and Inciarte to start at the same time. Kemp provides the better upside.
Until then, it's a waiting game for our farm system to work itself out. Tons of talent below AA that need to progress. I really don't think we'll see a good MLB club before '18
I think 3B is fine. I'm not a big Ruiz fan but I think he can provide replacement level for a few years.
Our outfield needs work. We shouldn't use Markakis and Kemp both for too long. One has to go for Smith and Inciarte to start at the same time. Kemp provides the better upside.
Until then, it's a waiting game for our farm system to work itself out. Tons of talent below AA that need to progress. I really don't think we'll see a good MLB club before '18
Posted on 7/30/16 at 9:49 pm to TheJones
I'm upset because I feel like they are chasing their losses.
The Olivera trade wasn't good from a value perspective, forget some cum stained Peraza poster.
He had no value as a player and they committed $35M to him. That's fine, mistakes happen, I understand.
But to compound that mistake with an ever bigger commitment to a 30+ year old arthritic corner OF just to make the first mistake go away is worrisome imo.
The Olivera trade wasn't good from a value perspective, forget some cum stained Peraza poster.
He had no value as a player and they committed $35M to him. That's fine, mistakes happen, I understand.
But to compound that mistake with an ever bigger commitment to a 30+ year old arthritic corner OF just to make the first mistake go away is worrisome imo.
Posted on 7/30/16 at 9:55 pm to volfan30
I absolutely see where you're coming from. I promise I'm not just toying with you.
We differ in expectations I think. I don't expect us to contend until '19 so it doesn't matter to me how we use our "cap" space until then.
The average fan is going to be pumped about Kemp. My dad thinks the Braves just got a MVP player. I'm just saying I don't think the difference between cutting Olivera and acquiring Kemp for 8m is much considering the circumstances
We differ in expectations I think. I don't expect us to contend until '19 so it doesn't matter to me how we use our "cap" space until then.
The average fan is going to be pumped about Kemp. My dad thinks the Braves just got a MVP player. I'm just saying I don't think the difference between cutting Olivera and acquiring Kemp for 8m is much considering the circumstances
Posted on 7/30/16 at 9:56 pm to TheJones
quote:
We have to address catcher. I'm about as confident in Flowers' production this year as I was AJP's last year.
Flowers can't hit; he's a good framer though.
Posted on 7/30/16 at 9:59 pm to TheJones
Next year's $9M doesn't matter to me at all. We will be shitty next year and there is plenty of money to spend. But I want as much flexibility as possible after that, especially considering that 17 FA class, and adding $8M / yr in salary obligations in 18 and 19 just isn't appealing to me at all.
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