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Started By
Message
re: Successful College Programs that were laid to waste when they ran off/fired their HC
Posted on 9/4/24 at 9:17 am to WG_Dawg
Posted on 9/4/24 at 9:17 am to WG_Dawg
quote:
The cautionary tale here isn't "don't fire your HC", it's "if you do fire a good/decent HC, you better damn well be SURE you're hiring an upgrade".
Sometimes the writing is simply on the wall and you know a guy has taken you as far as he can. There also needs to be a reality check of expectations as well. Back when Pelini/Nebraska was winning 9 games the NU admin probably though "that's bullshite, we should be winning 11 games a year and in natty convo every couple yeras". That's probably not a realistic expectation.
Let's take a school like florida though. After spurrier they had ron zook who was only there 3 years before they knew the jig was up. This wa sa big crossroads but they got Urban so it worked for them. Richt had clearly plateaued by the time we fired him in 2015 but we also made the right call. Plenty of schools have made the right call. Then you have schools like nebraska and tennessee that have made poor choices and just contuinually shot themselves in the foot, not simply because they fired a coach quickly but beacuse they keep hiring shite coaches.
quote:
If Clemson finally runs Dabo off we could just as easily end being the next Nebraska
100% dependent on the hire. Dabo is a worse version of mark richt if you take out the two #1 overall NFL draft phenom QBs he had. Venebales certainly was a huge factor as well. Without Deshaun/Trevor Dabo is basically an above average coach in a complete dogshit league. And considering his best days are clearly behind him and he refuses to adapt to the modern game, it's going to be in clemson's best interest to get someone better sooner rather than later. That is...if you want to actually copmete for natties. Clemson will make the playoffs or at least be in playoff contention every single year just because of how big of an utter joke the ACC is. So if playoff contention is your goal, stick with dabo. If national titles are your goal, this past Saturday should make it crystal clear how big the ever-expanding gap is between clemson and an actual title contender.
Good read. Dabo was one of the real masters in navigating in the pre-NIL and pre-Portal era when the Schools had a lot more control over their players. Unlike Richt, Dabo did break the ceiling at a place where it's a little harder being "lLittle Old Clemson".
His "best days" will be behind him only if he doesn't figure out how to work the portal and NIL. I think a much better evaluation of Dabo will be how this season plays out. If Clemson runs the table, which is possible in this years ACC, wins the league and is one of the top 4 seeds, then the discussion is over. If he has a repeat of least year then it's time to have that dreaded discussion of what to do with a beloved Head Coach that has brought so much succes.
This post was edited on 9/4/24 at 9:19 am
1
Posted on 9/4/24 at 9:28 am to CU_Tigers4life
Close to home. LSU ran Cholly Mac off and didn't really recover until Saban arrived. (In fairness, Bo Rein might have saved the program. He had the "look of an eagle".)
Posted on 9/4/24 at 9:51 am to blueridgeTiger
Southern Miss was always seemed solid under Bowers. Aggies firing RC hasn't been good.
Posted on 9/4/24 at 10:02 am to CU_Tigers4life
quote:
His "best days" will be behind him only if he doesn't figure out how to work the portal and NIL
This sentence implies that it's possible for his best days to still be ahead of him, which simply won't happen.
With Deshaun/Trevor as full time starters he's gone 67-5 (93%) with 2 national titles. In those 5 seasons his average final finishing position is 2.
Without a #1 NFL draft pick at QB he's gone 99-36 (73%) with 0 titles. In those years his average final ranking is 15th, and that's not counting the one year they finished unranked.
Keep in mind his whole career has been in a weak conference with typically no more than 1 other team that's even top-10 caliber. Granted, you would certainly be expected to do better with a top pick at QB opposed to not having one, so that's not some huge revelation. But it's striking how absolutely pedestrian he is without them compared to not. Guys like saban, kirby, etc have proven they don't need that to win a title but dabo very clearly does. And now with a 12 tema playoff he isn't going to be able to sleepwalk through an ACC schedule then play 2 hard games at the end of the year anymore. He'll have 3-4 top-10 caliber temas to end the season and I just don't think he's built for it.
quote:
Unlike Richt, Dabo did break the ceiling at a place where it's a little harder being "lLittle Old Clemson".
If Richt's UGA temas played in the ACC they undoubtedly have at least 1 title.
quote:
I think a much better evaluation of Dabo will be how this season plays out
Why? Look at their crappy schedule. They play one team that's worth a single shite at all and they just lost to them by 31 points. You think beating up on FSU or louisville redeems that?
quote:
f Clemson runs the table, which is possible in this years ACC, wins the league and is one of the top 4 seeds, then the discussion is over.
lol why? All that will show is that the ACC champion is 4 touchdowns worse than one of the SEC's better temas. That's not some big feather in the cap for dabo, it's a damning indictment on the ACC.
Posted on 9/4/24 at 10:06 am to CU_Tigers4life
Mizzou ran off Dan Devine in 1970, and pretty much wandered off into irrelevance for 30 years while the rest of college football exploded onto national tv screens. We're still paying for it.
Posted on 9/4/24 at 10:07 am to WG_Dawg
Maybe the game should be played first before you declare a 4 TD winner. It’s week 2 and a long way to January. Injuries are gonna affect at least 2 top tier teams between now and then.
Posted on 9/4/24 at 10:08 am to RunningJacket
quote:
Maybe the game should be played first before you declare a 4 TD winner.
did I time travel backwards to some time before August 31st?
Posted on 9/4/24 at 10:11 am to Bench McElroy
quote:
Florida firing Dan Mullen for Billy Napier was pretty bad.
Firing Mullen was the right decision.
It turns out hiring Billy was the wrong one.
Posted on 9/4/24 at 10:12 am to VADawg
quote:
Michigan ran Lloyd Carr off and sucked for almost 15 years after.
factually incorrect
Carr retired at the end of the 2007 season. he wanted to retire at the end of the 2006 season, after Bo Schembechler died (during the OSU week), but the AD of UM was caught off guard, and convinced him to coach for 1 more year to allow him time for the next coach
a big reason as to why UM lost to App st. Carr didn't even wanna coach that year
Posted on 9/4/24 at 10:13 am to WG_Dawg
quote:
All that will show is that the ACC champion is 4 touchdowns worse than one of the SEC's better temas. That's not some big feather in the cap for dabo, it's a damning indictment on the ACC.
I've heard this for over a decade. In Dabo's early years, the statement was "Clemson will get destroyed in the playoffs because they don't play a tough schedule and won't be able to compete with elite talent"....Well, after Dabo started beating these elite teams the narrative change to "Since Clemson plays an easier schedule their players aren't beat up and are fresher"...So that's just white noise. We play the schedule that is in front of us and that's all that can be done.
As for why wait, what can you do after game 1? Fire the coach and blow up the season? We got beat. Move on.
Posted on 9/4/24 at 10:13 am to WG_Dawg
Auburn since firing Malzahn:
6-7
5-7
6-7
I know they aren't a powerhouse program by any means but they basically fired Malzahn because he wasn't Nick Saban when his tenure at Auburn was better than Auburn's historical record
6-7
5-7
6-7
I know they aren't a powerhouse program by any means but they basically fired Malzahn because he wasn't Nick Saban when his tenure at Auburn was better than Auburn's historical record
Posted on 9/4/24 at 10:18 am to CU_Tigers4life
Clemson better be patient. There are a lot of one trick ponies and bad coaches out there right now.
Posted on 9/4/24 at 10:19 am to usc6158
quote:
Mullen had completely phoned it in at that point and basically given up even trying to recruit,
Everyone always says this about him, but his classes were pretty damn good, according to 247 sports. I see his last 3 classes were rated #12, #8, #9.
Posted on 9/4/24 at 10:21 am to Madking
There is something to be said for staying the course. BK re-tooled after a 4-8 season at ND and finished well. Harbaugh was considered a failure after year 6, but he and Michigan were kind of stuck with each other and it worked out in the end.
Posted on 9/4/24 at 10:21 am to CU_Tigers4life
quote:
All that will show is that the ACC champion is 4 touchdowns worse than one of the SEC's better temas
quote:
I've heard this for over a decade
I mean...this isn't speculation. The game last weekend literlaly happened so if clemson does win a shitty ACC this would be factually correct. There's nothing to even debate.
quote:
the statement was "Clemson will get destroyed in the playoffs because they don't play a tough schedule and won't be able to compete with elite talent"....Well, after Dabo started beating these elite teams the narrative change to "Since Clemson plays an easier schedule their players aren't beat up and are fresher"..
Well..that looks to be true doesn't it? Instead of getting a free pass all year then only having to prep for bama for one game, don't you think playing uga/lsu/tennessee/auburn/bama/florida etc week in week out might make things more difficult?
Again we're now getting off the topic of dabo and onto how shitty the ACC is.
quote:
We play the schedule that is in front of us and that's all that can be done.
of course. But on the issue of "dabo's better days might not be behind him", I sipmly see no way to think that's remotely possible based on what we currently know.
quote:
As for why wait, what can you do after game 1? Fire the coach and blow up the season? We got beat. Move on.
I don' think anyone is advocating clemson fire dabo this week. He won't even be fired after this season no matter how many losses they have, IMO.
My original point was just that if clemson aspires to get back into "hey, we have a legimiate shot to be the best team in america this year" territory, it's going to take someone else leading the pgoram. Whether that move is made next year or in 10 years is anyone' guess.
Posted on 9/4/24 at 10:23 am to blueridgeTiger
quote:
Close to home. LSU ran Cholly Mac off and didn't really recover until Saban arrived. (In fairness, Bo Rein might have saved the program. He had the "look of an eagle".)
Hallman just needed one more year to turn it around
Posted on 9/4/24 at 10:24 am to blueridgeTiger
quote:
Close to home. LSU ran Cholly Mac off and didn't really recover until Saban arrived. (In fairness, Bo Rein might have saved the program. He had the "look of an eagle".)
Arnsparger had a good run but was short lived. Archer had a good couple of years immediately following riding Bill's ripples but then bottomed out when the program was fully his and Hallman was out of his league.
I would also argue DiNardo made some headway in reviving the program. He recruited well and got some Louisiana guys to stay home when they were leaving in droves to go elsewhere. The ending was bad because of Tepper loyalty but DiNardo still left the program in better shape than he found it. A lot of his players were part of the 01 SEC champ team.
Posted on 9/4/24 at 10:41 am to WG_Dawg
quote:
I don' think anyone is advocating clemson fire dabo this week. He won't even be fired after this season no matter how many losses they have, IMO.
My original point was just that if clemson aspires to get back into "hey, we have a legimiate shot to be the best team in america this year" territory, it's going to take someone else leading the pgoram. Whether that move is made next year or in 10 years is anyone' guess.
Uga is going to blast a lot of teams this year. What Kirby has done in this NIL/Portal era is spectacular. They are close to breaking the regular season winning streak.
Let's see if Clemson can get back to winning the ACC, returning to the playoffs and seeing how things playout.
As for this last game, Clemson was holding their own with a 6-0 game at half time. Had Clemson not done some self-inflicted offensive screw ups along with Dabo not differing at the coin toss we could have made this a closer game. Once the momentum took over it was game over.
This post was edited on 9/4/24 at 10:43 am
Posted on 9/4/24 at 10:49 am to Jack Ruby
quote:
Arkansas firing Petrino was essentially a self-imposed death penalty for the football program for 12 years.
No way they could've kept him though.
Posted on 9/4/24 at 10:52 am to WG_Dawg
I’m talking about the playoffs not a meaningless game in week 1. Yes, Clemson got trounced. And ultimately that game meant nothing because it’s not a conference game. You guys have to change your way of thinking these days. All that matters are conference games in the regular season and then playoff games. The rest are scrimmages. UGA and Clemson both have the exact same path to a top 4 seed as they did a week ago.
And injuries are gonna play a huge role. In my mind, the teams that have the most to lose with a singular injury are UGA with Beck, Bama with Milroe, and Ole Miss with Dart. No other teams are as reliant on singular players as those three. I think UGA would still be very good with the backup, but not Bama or Ole Miss. Texas, Ohio State, Oregon, and other top teams don’t rely on their #1 guy as much and have guys on the sideline who could produce.
And injuries are gonna play a huge role. In my mind, the teams that have the most to lose with a singular injury are UGA with Beck, Bama with Milroe, and Ole Miss with Dart. No other teams are as reliant on singular players as those three. I think UGA would still be very good with the backup, but not Bama or Ole Miss. Texas, Ohio State, Oregon, and other top teams don’t rely on their #1 guy as much and have guys on the sideline who could produce.
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