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re: Questions: Who was better, Hakeem or Shaq?
Posted on 12/17/11 at 1:08 pm to Bacciagaloop
Posted on 12/17/11 at 1:08 pm to Bacciagaloop
Simply put, both were amazing.
Tough to compare them because they played TOTALLY different styles. Shaq was a bruiser who knew how to use his body to get points. Hakeem had the footwork and agility of a point guard but he was 7' tall.
All in all, I'd say it's a pretty damn close draw between these two and Wilt. I'd take Hakeem (I'm obviously biased) but only because his ability to shot 20 footers opened the lanes for the other guys.
Tough to compare them because they played TOTALLY different styles. Shaq was a bruiser who knew how to use his body to get points. Hakeem had the footwork and agility of a point guard but he was 7' tall.
All in all, I'd say it's a pretty damn close draw between these two and Wilt. I'd take Hakeem (I'm obviously biased) but only because his ability to shot 20 footers opened the lanes for the other guys.
1
Posted on 12/17/11 at 1:14 pm to HT713
Shaq dominated him too. Rockets just happened to win.
Posted on 12/17/11 at 1:17 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
Shaq dominated him too. Rockets just happened to win.
I'm not sure two players can dominate each other...?
It's not like Shaq got embarrassed, but he definitely got out played. Hakeem was the MVP of a four game sweep in which shaq guarded him one on one probably 70% of the time.
Posted on 12/17/11 at 1:19 pm to HT713
quote:
I'm not sure two players can dominate each other...?
because there are btoh offensive and defensive matchups within a game.
If both guys score 30 points who do you determine dominated who?
I could see you saying Hakeem dominated had he shut down Shaq, but Shaq owned him as well when ORL had the ball.
Posted on 12/17/11 at 1:22 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
You are calling him the best defensive player to ever walk the earth.
You do this a lot. You need to reread my post. Is Hakeem not one of the best defensive players of all time? How does allowing Shaq to score 28 ppg during a Finals in which the Rockets won in a sweep change that? What would have been a more satisfactory total for Shaq?
As with ANY center, Hakeem's biggest impact defensively was on team defense. And, as with any center that Hakeem or Bill Russell or Shaq himself faced, Shaq was able to score. Just like Ewing. Just like Robinson. Just like Wilt against Russell.
quote:
The NBA was at the start of its "urban age". Penny and Shaq were cool and immensely hyped. It doesnt mean their team was that much better.
They were favored by pretty much everyone. Grant was a top 10 PF. Scott and Anderson each were 20 ppg scorers without Shaq and Penny. Penny was a top two or three PG in the league.
Posted on 12/17/11 at 1:23 pm to Lester Earl
Shaq; 28pts 12 reb 6 ast and shot nearly 60% from the field in that series . Lol. That is just as dominating.
Shaq held Hakeem to 48% shooting while Shaq shot 59%.
Shaq held Hakeem to 48% shooting while Shaq shot 59%.
Posted on 12/17/11 at 1:26 pm to mattz1122
quote:
Is Hakeem not one of the best defensive players of all time?
He was, but it doesn't help an argument against Shaq when you are trying to diminish what he has done, and then in the next breath say Hakeem was the best defensive player ever, when the fact is he couldn't stop Shaq.
quote:
How does allowing Shaq to score 28 ppg during a Finals in which the Rockets won in a sweep change that?
I am saying that it is major points for Shaq that "the best defensive player ever" couldnt stop it. I am not trying to discredit what Hakeem did. But that speaks volumes for how good Shaq was.
quote:
What would have been a more satisfactory total for Shaq?
It's a team game. THe Magic weren't swept because Shaq didn't show up.
Posted on 12/17/11 at 1:31 pm to HT713
quote:
And for the record, if you don't realize that Hakeem dominated Shaq in the finals, you probably didn't watch/ don't remember. Tough for Shaq though, he was still young
Shaq averaged 28 points, (on 60% shooting), 13 rebounds, 6 assist, and 3 blocks in that series
Hakeem averaged 33 points, (on 48% shooting), 12 rebounds, 6 assist, and 2 blocks
So, Hakeem averaged 5 more points a game, but he did so by taking an average of 10 more shots a game than Shaq did
Yeah, Hakeem really dominated Shaq in that series
Posted on 12/17/11 at 1:36 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
Shaq when you are trying to diminish what he has done, and then in the next breath say Hakeem was the best defensive player ever, when the fact is he couldn't stop Shaq.
Nobody stopped dominant centers like Shaq, Hakeem, Robinson, Wilt, Kareem, etc. It's an extremely high standard to which you're holding him.
Who, in your opinion, is the best defensive player of all time, by the way?
Posted on 12/17/11 at 1:54 pm to Obi-Wan Tiger
quote:
It shouldn't be...but i'm glad you guys brought it up because it is the EXACT argument that is used against Chamberlain in these debates. "oh everybody that he played against back then was 5-9..." which is a myth in and of itself, but even if it were true, it'd be irrelevant.
No, that is completely different. The fact that Shaq is arguably the most physically dominating athlete in today's world of bigger, faster sports is incredible. It is not irrelevant that basketball wasn't popular to as many people back then. In today's game, the biggest and best athletes in the whole world are playing and Shaq still dominates. Most Yao Ming type guys would not come to the NBA.
Nobody is faulting Wilt for being 7 feet. People are simply commenting that he wasn't dominating hundreds of 7 footers, which Shaq did.
Posted on 12/17/11 at 2:34 pm to mattz1122
No one locked an opposing player down like Jordan could IMO. He was tenacious, athletic, instinctive,, and just refused to lose or let a player get the better of him
Posted on 12/17/11 at 2:38 pm to DP40
Hakeem is most skilled big man of all time. Shaq was the most dominate. It's really hard to compare these two. Hakeem was more of a power forward to me
Posted on 12/17/11 at 2:43 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
THe Magic weren't swept because Shaq didn't show up.
they were swept because Nick Anderson choked
Posted on 12/17/11 at 3:03 pm to TigerintheNO
quote:
they were swept because Nick Anderson choked
other wise it would have been 4-1 Rockets
This post was edited on 12/17/11 at 3:04 pm
Posted on 12/17/11 at 3:33 pm to DP40
Hakeem was an amazing center, Id lean to him.
Oneal was dominate but I always thought he was just as good in his first year as he was in his prime. Never really improved his game, stayed heavy, and had too short of a prime. He was lazy on defense IMO, never bothered to even block out. He was never the rebounder I thought he could have been. He was a huge force in his prime though.
Hakeem and Wilt were the best defensive centers ever eras thrown aside. If blocks were counted back then Wilt would lead the all-time list by a mile.
Wilt holds records that will never be approached, period. The most dominate player the game has ever seen or will see.
I read where someone documented one complete game in which he had:
71 Points
44 Rebounds
22 Blocked shots
Oneal was dominate but I always thought he was just as good in his first year as he was in his prime. Never really improved his game, stayed heavy, and had too short of a prime. He was lazy on defense IMO, never bothered to even block out. He was never the rebounder I thought he could have been. He was a huge force in his prime though.
Hakeem and Wilt were the best defensive centers ever eras thrown aside. If blocks were counted back then Wilt would lead the all-time list by a mile.
Wilt holds records that will never be approached, period. The most dominate player the game has ever seen or will see.
I read where someone documented one complete game in which he had:
71 Points
44 Rebounds
22 Blocked shots
Posted on 12/17/11 at 3:34 pm to H-Town Tiger
The Rocket championship teams will never get the respect they're due. I think the bulls don't make it past the Knicks and the 95 team with Clyde and crazy arse Vernon maxwell on Jordan, take a 7 game series
Posted on 12/17/11 at 3:38 pm to bomber77
quote:
Hakeem and Wilt were the best defensive centers ever
Bill Russell
Posted on 12/17/11 at 3:51 pm to c on z
nm
This post was edited on 12/17/11 at 3:52 pm
Posted on 12/17/11 at 3:57 pm to jturn17
quote:
Shaq has the big point totals that everyone likes, but he never played the defense Hakeem did.
This. Shaq even in his prime could be exposed on pick and rolls all night long, much moreso than Hakeem.
Shaq got alot of blocks of the ball but as an on-man defender he was at best average, if that.
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