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re: Playoff Bill set to go to the House

Posted on 12/9/09 at 10:18 am to
Posted by biglego
San Francisco
Member since Nov 2007
84710 posts
Posted on 12/9/09 at 10:18 am to





Posted by Giantkiller
the internet.
Member since Sep 2007
25450 posts
Posted on 12/9/09 at 10:18 am to
quote:

This has no chance of passing and I think it is pushed every year by either Joe Barton or Orrin Hatch. The goal is to get the BCS to change on its own, and these bills are to encourage that change.


The BCS has only been around for 10 years, and probably only been shown to be a huge mess more recently than not. But after Florida assrapes Cincy and nobody watches the Fiesta Bowl because they don't really give a shite about TCU or Boise, then let me know how much of a "success" the lot of the country thinks the BCS really is.
Posted by thenry712
Zasullia, Ukraine
Member since Nov 2008
15795 posts
Posted on 12/9/09 at 10:19 am to
My two cents on the matter:

Universities receive large amounts of revenue from national championships in the two main collegiate sports. Not only that, they also get noticed by prospective high school seniors looking at colleges. LSU had a huge spike in numbers for the freshman class last year and in 2004. Most of these students are out-of-state and would generally ignore Louisiana for higher education. Growth for university system enrollments is normally a positive. Cincinnati or Boise State, both of whom are not top tier universities, would love to see an increase in smart out-of-state students look to their campus as a college choice.
This post was edited on 12/9/09 at 10:20 am
Posted by KingwoodLsuFan
Member since Aug 2008
11447 posts
Posted on 12/9/09 at 10:20 am to
people hate the bcs but it is still better then the system before. I think a 10 team playoff would be the best. The bcs atleast makes the season interesting.
Posted by Vegas Bengal
Member since Feb 2008
26344 posts
Posted on 12/9/09 at 10:24 am to
quote:

Supreme Court would likely find it unconstitutional.


How would this be unconstitutional?
quote:

bill that would allow the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) to prohibit any bowl game from calling itself a "national championship" unless the game is "the final game of a single elimination post-season playoff system."
The FTC can prohibit products from calling themselves "Fat Free" if they're not truly fat free. The agency is within its right to prohibit false advertising. If they prohibit the BCS from using the words "national championship" in their advertising, when the BCS is in fact not the "national championship", then that is within their power as the federal regulator with powers over marketing.
quote:

Barton's bill would prohibit the BCS from billing itself as a national championship. Under the bill, any attempt to market the BCS as a championship would be treated as unfair or deceptive trade practices under the Federal Trade Commission Act.


The BCS could still have the game but they just couldn't call it a "national championship".

I'm not arguing whether they should do it or not. I'm just saying that they can.

And they can even without this bill being passed.
This post was edited on 12/9/09 at 10:26 am
Posted by MiketheTiger69
Moore/Norman, Oklahoma
Member since Jan 2004
3315 posts
Posted on 12/9/09 at 10:25 am to
Math wasn't your strongest subject, was it? You have to go 2-4-8-16-32-64 etc. to make a playoff work. You'd have to give two teams first round byes for a 10 team playoff to work.
Posted by Baloo
Formerly MDGeaux
Member since Sep 2003
49645 posts
Posted on 12/9/09 at 11:34 am to
quote:

Find me where in our founding documents it says this is the domain of Wash DC.

Can you seriously argue that college football is NOT interstate commerce? I don't think the House should be bothering with this, but it certainly passes Constitutional muster. Texas and Alabama are PUBLIC INSTITUTIONS in two different states playing a game in California.

You can argue its a bad idea, but the Constitutional argument is a sure loser, even for a strict textualist.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
476662 posts
Posted on 12/9/09 at 11:35 am to
quote:

It's more about eliminating a monopoly

there is no monopoly

shite schools can join BCS conferences if they work at it

this is the BCS national championship

will this law make the AP poll illegal also?
This post was edited on 12/9/09 at 11:37 am
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
476662 posts
Posted on 12/9/09 at 11:37 am to
quote:

penalize the system that calls it a national championship unless it is the end result of a single-elimination tournament.

A plus one would fit this mold.

a plus one, in the classical sense, would not
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
476662 posts
Posted on 12/9/09 at 11:38 am to
quote:

and small schools know that they will never have a chance as long as polls decide who plays for titles.

the only way small schools don't frick themselves in this deal is if there is some ridiculous system created
Posted by Baloo
Formerly MDGeaux
Member since Sep 2003
49645 posts
Posted on 12/9/09 at 11:42 am to
quote:

shite schools can join BCS conferences if they work at it

Ummm.... you didn't take much antitrust law in law school, did you? The BCS conference by definition limit participation in a market, which raises lots of Sherman Act questions. The idea that "we're not a monopoly because we absorb the competition" is, um, er, illegal. That's what Ma Bell did. And when was the last time a BCS conference added a team from a non-BCS conference? Arguably South Carolina when the SEC expanded. But the "BCS cartel" was created AFTER they joined. No non-BCS team has been added since the invention of the BCS. Your argument, aside from being legally wrong, is also factually unsupported.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
476662 posts
Posted on 12/9/09 at 11:43 am to
quote:

The BCS conference by definition limit participation in a market

it's a market they created among themselves

quote:

And when was the last time a BCS conference added a team from a non-BCS conference?

when the ACC expanded and the Big East took a bunch of CUSA teams. it was a few years ago

this was well after the formation of the BCS

quote:

No non-BCS team has been added since the invention of the BCS.

Louisville disagrees
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
476662 posts
Posted on 12/9/09 at 11:45 am to
the championship is the "BCS" National Championship

the BCS is a collection of 6 conferences, who all agree the champ of the BCS is their recognized champ

it is not an NCAA championship
Posted by Baloo
Formerly MDGeaux
Member since Sep 2003
49645 posts
Posted on 12/9/09 at 11:46 am to
quote:

it's a market they created among themselves

And that matters because? Once again, not real big on antitrust law, are ya?

quote:

when the ACC expanded and the Big East took a bunch of CUSA teams. it was a few years ago

this was well after the formation of the BCS

Forgot about the Big East. Of course, since Cincy is getting hosed, they might want to bring the suit. So, you have a few facts which support your legally incorrect conclusion. My apologies.

Adding new parties to a monopoly is hardly a defense to antitrust.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
476662 posts
Posted on 12/9/09 at 11:48 am to
quote:

Once again, not real big on antitrust law, are ya?

never claimed to be

i fail to see how a group forming to anoint a national champion falls under anti-trust

is the AP under anti-trust regulations?

quote:

since Cincy is getting hosed

i don't even see them complaining really

quote:

Adding new parties to a monopoly

is the SEC a monopoly?

it's a collection of schools that agree to have certain rules to name a champion among the group
This post was edited on 12/9/09 at 11:49 am
Posted by Baloo
Formerly MDGeaux
Member since Sep 2003
49645 posts
Posted on 12/9/09 at 12:00 pm to
Without getting too technical, a monopoly is one party excluding others from a market. A market is, well, whatever you can convince the court it is. I'd probably argue the market is not "crowning a champ", it is the National title game itself, since that's where the money is. All sports leagues are somewhat monopolistic and we're okay with that.

But no one has ever argued that the SEC is a monopoly, though it is a cartel. Which would raise some issues if anyone wanted to challenge it. From a legal standpoint, most sports leagues SHOULD lose antitrust cases, they just won't because the law is applied differently to sports leagues. I think an antitrust case would be destined to fail (sports leagues have other interests other than making money, the teams are actually dependant on each other which is different than in a normal industry in which there is every incentive to drive the competitor out of business), but that doesn't mean the BCS isn't a monopoly.

Your argument that the BCS isn't a monopoly because they limit the market and then will allow a few people in there club is actually an argument that they ARE a monopoly.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
476662 posts
Posted on 12/9/09 at 12:04 pm to
quote:

I'd probably argue the market is not "crowning a champ", it is the National title game itself, since that's where the money is

but the BCS lets the non-BCS into the money pool. hell the best non-BCS teams have an easier road and easier access to BCS money than an average BCS team. and this is even stronger now with BSU being rewarded for playing a 1AA team

quote:

Your argument that the BCS isn't a monopoly because they limit the market and then will allow a few people in there club is actually an argument that they ARE a monopoly.

but my argument is within sports

conferences and organizations band together all the time for different reasons. the BCS is no different

the reason why there is "BCS" money is because the conferences who make the money form the BCS

and the WAC isn't complaining. it's about to get a fat check. same with the MWC

hell the MWC hates the BCS so much that it's trying to join the BCS

quote:

I'd probably argue the market is not "crowning a champ", it is the National title game itself,

it is not the NCAA title, however

why isn't the AP poll a monopoly on the AP champion? hell it's the only relevant poll in these terms today
This post was edited on 12/9/09 at 12:05 pm
Posted by Baloo
Formerly MDGeaux
Member since Sep 2003
49645 posts
Posted on 12/9/09 at 12:05 pm to
quote:

i fail to see how a group forming to anoint a national champion falls under anti-trust

is the AP under anti-trust regulations?

I wasn'y aware the AP put on a bowl game which they sold tickets to and the rights to TV networks. Oh, that's right, they don't. The POLL is not a monopoly because there is no market. It's the GAME, which derives revenue.
Posted by kclsufan
Show Me
Member since Jun 2008
12101 posts
Posted on 12/9/09 at 12:06 pm to
quote:

government needs to get the frick out of sports and the economy.

Fixed.
Posted by etm512
Mandeville, LA
Member since Aug 2005
21023 posts
Posted on 12/9/09 at 12:08 pm to
Easy solution: have all the other conferences join up and have a game and call it the "Non-BCS National Championship". I mean if EVERYONE is so hard up on seeing these teams compete, then this should bring in all kinds of money and eliminate the bitching, right?
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