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re: Phil Fulmer...do you think Tennessee misses him?
Posted on 10/20/11 at 11:35 am to H-Town Tiger
Posted on 10/20/11 at 11:35 am to H-Town Tiger
quote:
they were recruiting well in places like La, Ga and SC, but LSU, UGA and USCe hired better coaches and recruits started staying home and Tenn started losing more.
Tennessee was always the most vulnerable team in the East. If it wasn't for their history/fanbase, I would say they are now not much better than KY program wise going forward.
However, UT will continue to use their history and fight, but the talent in-state will mean they will be up and down and never really stable beyond a 3-4 year period.
1
Posted on 10/20/11 at 11:45 am to Moustache
quote:
However, UT will continue to use their history and fight, but the talent in-state will mean they will be up and down and never really stable beyond a 3-4 year period.
Completely agree. To be honest, I really think TN needs the type of offense we are working toward now. B/c of the disadvantage we have in recruiting instate, we should gear more for the more pass oriented and surprise you with a run offense, that someone like Ok. State is having success with now. It's easier to recruit for that rather than finding the big body linemen that can bulldoze people during runs, or the type of RB that can handle the workload a Richardson or Ware gets.
Posted on 10/20/11 at 12:46 pm to Wishnitwas1998
getting rid of fulmer was the right move. his teams were underperforming and he was getting out recruited. hiring kiffin was the mistake. dooley hasn't proven he is capable of pullin them out of this funk either.
Posted on 10/20/11 at 12:54 pm to 1999
Dooley has a number 8 and number 13 recruiting class under his belt and this class looks to be a lock for the top 10. Talent going forward is not as big of a problem as some in this thread will lead you to believe. The depth is nowhere close to where it needs to be, as the upperclassmen are probably the worst in the BCS as a group.
Once he gets three or four classes with top 10ish talent, we will see what he can do. 2012 and even moreso 2013 will be it.
Fulmer was getting top 5-10 recruiting classes every year, but wasn't doing anything with it.
Once he gets three or four classes with top 10ish talent, we will see what he can do. 2012 and even moreso 2013 will be it.
Fulmer was getting top 5-10 recruiting classes every year, but wasn't doing anything with it.
This post was edited on 10/20/11 at 12:55 pm
Posted on 10/20/11 at 1:04 pm to 1999
I really think that tv proliferation and tv contract money(filtered down into facilities), doesn't get enough conversation in terms of how it's affected/created parity in the landscape of NCAA Football and Basketball.
Not nearly as much as does say Scholarship Limits, Rust Belt vs Sunbelt does in NCAA Football, the cold-weather/hot-weather NCAA Baseball angle gets discussed, or say the post-9/11 shift where kids/parents wanted to stay/play closer to home for many Big-Three NCAA Mens Sports.
But, those tv dollars have closed the gap for many haves and have-nots, as you can only gold-plate your arenas and practice facilities so much, but for many have-nots, they finally have something where there was formerly nothing to sell vs the Ky Hoops, Oregon Football, in terms of great facilities.
Texas, LSU(until NS), Fla(until SOS), Bama(Stallings era somewhat brief albeit dominant for last yrs), UGa(until MR), etc.. These latter schools with much stronger in-state talent than Tennessee. Majors tenure didn't have Arkansas in the SEC. The current landscape plays as much a factor as does the Vols HC and/or recent hires. It was already dragging down Fulmer to a degree.
Tenn's recent Neyland upgrades in and out, will help, but they have always needed to recruit nationally. And in Majors/Fulmer's prime, their competition in the SEC..LSU, UGa, Fla, Bama, weren't at their current levels in terms of consistency, facilities, coaching salary, budgets, etc..
Schools like Georgetown Hoops, Arkansas Hoops, Nebraska Football, Tennessee Football, with limited local and/ in-state talent, will never dominate to their former degrees..Oklahoma lucky that Dallas and Tx talent is so close across the state border.
Not nearly as much as does say Scholarship Limits, Rust Belt vs Sunbelt does in NCAA Football, the cold-weather/hot-weather NCAA Baseball angle gets discussed, or say the post-9/11 shift where kids/parents wanted to stay/play closer to home for many Big-Three NCAA Mens Sports.
But, those tv dollars have closed the gap for many haves and have-nots, as you can only gold-plate your arenas and practice facilities so much, but for many have-nots, they finally have something where there was formerly nothing to sell vs the Ky Hoops, Oregon Football, in terms of great facilities.
Texas, LSU(until NS), Fla(until SOS), Bama(Stallings era somewhat brief albeit dominant for last yrs), UGa(until MR), etc.. These latter schools with much stronger in-state talent than Tennessee. Majors tenure didn't have Arkansas in the SEC. The current landscape plays as much a factor as does the Vols HC and/or recent hires. It was already dragging down Fulmer to a degree.
Tenn's recent Neyland upgrades in and out, will help, but they have always needed to recruit nationally. And in Majors/Fulmer's prime, their competition in the SEC..LSU, UGa, Fla, Bama, weren't at their current levels in terms of consistency, facilities, coaching salary, budgets, etc..
Schools like Georgetown Hoops, Arkansas Hoops, Nebraska Football, Tennessee Football, with limited local and/ in-state talent, will never dominate to their former degrees..Oklahoma lucky that Dallas and Tx talent is so close across the state border.
This post was edited on 10/20/11 at 1:22 pm
Posted on 10/20/11 at 1:05 pm to volfan30
quote:
Fulmer was getting top 5-10 recruiting classes every year, but wasn't doing anything with it.
That makes sense. It appeared that way. Fulmer needed great talent just to compete...instead of great talent putting him over the top.
Posted on 10/20/11 at 1:06 pm to TheRoarRestoredInBR
Oregon Footall is very recent in the CFB timeline, and only because they are now a MAJOR HAVE are they even remotely relevant.
Posted on 10/20/11 at 1:13 pm to KosmoCramer
That's part of my point. Schools like Oregon Football, Gonzaga Hoops, etc..are on the scene, where they formerly were for all intents and purposes non-existent.
TV proliferation and dough, along with NCAA scholly/parity-intent limits, has created a landscape where schools that must import all their talent like Tenn and Neb Football, or Ark Hoops, have much fiercer competition than formerly when perennial Top-Ten programs.
TV proliferation and dough, along with NCAA scholly/parity-intent limits, has created a landscape where schools that must import all their talent like Tenn and Neb Football, or Ark Hoops, have much fiercer competition than formerly when perennial Top-Ten programs.
This post was edited on 10/20/11 at 1:15 pm
Posted on 10/20/11 at 1:14 pm to TheRoarRestoredInBR
quote:
I really think that tv proliferation and tv contract money(filtered down into facilities), doesn't get enough conversation in terms of how it's affected/created parity in the landscape of NCAA Football and Basketball.
That's the biggest IMO. Back in the day, you went to ND because they were on TV. In the PAC 10, USC vs. whoever WAS the ONE PAC 10 GAME OF THE WEEK. You used to get 3 football games on TV for the entire day. 1 Big 10 game, 1 Big 8 game (only if Nebraska or Oklahoma was playing) and 1 PAC 10 game (we never got SEC games on the West Coast in the early 80's.) ESPN brought the SEC to a larger audience. ABC was all Big 10/PAC 10/Big 8 and even then it was hardly any games.
Now everyone is on TV. You are going to be seen as a player...the NFL will know about you and your family can watch you on TV.
Posted on 10/20/11 at 1:19 pm to KosmoCramer
quote:
Oregon Footall is very recent in the CFB timeline
Exactly. Oregon Football is directly related to the last 10-12 years only. They reached out to Phil Knight and he's built that program. Even lowly Davis-Wade stadium is larger than Autzen stadium.
As far as Tennessee goes, at least it's a school that could make one right coaching hire and the ship could be corrected. I'm not sold on Dooley yet but it's probably still early considering how bad of shape they were in.
Posted on 10/20/11 at 1:19 pm to Zamoro10
quote:
Now everyone is on TV
but still, relatively few games are broadcast nationally; roughly 25-30 teams might get broadcast nationally each week counting ESPN thursday/friday night football and ESPNU broadcasts (which i do not know how far saturated that station is across the states).
...and if we are just talking the big three networks (CBS, ABC, NBC) than less than 10 teams get broadcast nationally each week.
This post was edited on 10/20/11 at 1:22 pm
Posted on 10/20/11 at 1:34 pm to LSUGrad9295
Fulmer knew that in order for Tennessee to win the SEC, he would have to keep Bama down. A strong Bama spells doom for UT.
No outside hire will understand this dynamic of Tennessee football as well as Fulmer did. And the idiot AD Mike Hamilton certainly didn't understand this either.
No outside hire will understand this dynamic of Tennessee football as well as Fulmer did. And the idiot AD Mike Hamilton certainly didn't understand this either.
Posted on 10/20/11 at 2:07 pm to Dobermann
quote:
No outside hire will understand this dynamic of Tennessee football as well as Fulmer did.
So would Fulmer have been able to stop Bama from hiring Saban? Understanding is fine, but he cant stop Bama from getting strong, so its a mute point.
Posted on 10/20/11 at 2:10 pm to rocket31
quote:
relatively few games are broadcast nationally
I think the idea of being on TV is grossly exaggerated. The extra TV $$$$ OTOH, I agree has been a big boost to many teams. I know in the late 80's early 90's, LSU's facilities were garabage. Extra revenue help build better facilities and better coaches were able to get the top in state talent.
Posted on 10/20/11 at 2:35 pm to LSUGrad9295
Anyone who thinks UT should have kept Fulmer either wasn't paying close enough attention or is simply stupid.
If Tennessee had fired him in 2005, UT would have been much better off right now.
If Tennessee had fired him in 2005, UT would have been much better off right now.
This post was edited on 10/20/11 at 2:41 pm
Posted on 10/20/11 at 2:42 pm to H-Town Tiger
quote:
but he cant stop Bama from getting strong
He tried like hell (i.e. Albert Means/Logan Young)...much harder than Kiffin or Dooley ever will.
Posted on 10/20/11 at 2:58 pm to Dobermann
quote:
He tried like hell (i.e. Albert Means/Logan Young)...
that's cute and all, but could not prevent them from hiring someone like Saban.
Posted on 10/20/11 at 3:02 pm to DovaVol
quote:
Dooley is taking the steps to getting us on track. I really like him as a coach, but I don't think he's the answer.
quote:
To me he's Tennessee's version of Mike Shula
I thought the same thing. He seems more like a caretaker or placeholder to make the program stable until y'all find that coach y'all really want.
quote:
The Fulmer of the 90s is definitely missed. The Fulmer of the 00's is not. It just seemed that he got tired and/or too relaxed.
This is the main reason I don't mind finding coaches who have eyes set on bigger jobs. They work harder because they want to get to that other level and the ones who are there for twenty years get stale and worn down. Seriously, the longest tenured coach in the SEC is Richt with ten years and he's about to be fired. Next is Miles and Spurrier who have been around since 2005, Saban in 2007, then Nutt and Petrino since 2008.
Posted on 10/20/11 at 3:09 pm to H-Town Tiger
quote:
that's cute and all, but could not prevent them from hiring someone like Saban
When did I ever say Fulmer attempted to stop Bama from hiring Saban(or any other hired gun)?
Coaching had been Bama's weak link for a decade prior to Saban and Fulmer capitalized on it, especially on the recruiting front. Beating them on the field didn't hurt either.
Posted on 10/20/11 at 3:10 pm to Dobermann
Things started going downhill for Fulmer when Rodney Garner left for Georgia.
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