re: PER and Kobe Bryant

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Yes. Kobe can play from anywhere on the floor. Lebron has his "spots" and Wade and Bosh and Allen.

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Explain this please. I coach basketball and I'm confused.

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Explain this please. I coach basketball and I'm confused.

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Take away a few spots on the floor he attacks and he sucks

The 06-07 Cavs team is the worst overall team to ever make the finals, with the 00-01 76ers a close second.

Outside of Lebron that team was hot garbage.

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The 06-07 Cavs team is the worst overall team to ever make the finals, with the 00-01 76ers a close second.

Outside of Lebron that team was hot garbage.

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Yeah....no.

I get the East was HOT GARBAGE that year but Lebron had...

A guy that recently came off a 22 ppg 6 rpg 5 apg 3 steals per game season who magically sucked playing with Lebron.

A guy who was a career 17 ppg and 10 rpg per 36 minutes, an All-Star 7 foot center in Big Z who magically sucked playing with Lebron.

A guy who when for 14 ppg and 14 rpg and was one of the best defenders in the NBA in his 30's who magically sucked with Lebron.

We could start going down the Heat roster and see this same magical pattern with Wade, Bosh, and Allen.

Hughes: stated my clear argument before, but how come even after LeBron his numbers kept dropping...and dropping...and dropping

Big Z: Get this. his rookie year (before two potentially career ending injuries) he shot his highest fg % and good numbers. He gets injured for 2 years. Then the 2 years between the injury and Lebron he averages 11/5.4 in 21 minutes and 17/7.5 in 30 minutes while shooting a poor 42.5% and 44.1%

Lebron comes in, he never shoots below 44.3% and his 2nd lowest was 46.8%. He puts up better numbers than those in between injury/lebron years and numbers on par to his rookie season.

Varejao: you mean the same guy that doesn't even play the same position as LeBron and that had a 10/10 per36 up until 2011(remember lebron left in 2010 and he still averaged 10/10 per36). Who's numbers upped when he wasn't a backup center for most of his career. Must've been that damn LeBron's fault that he was a backup center for big z

Wade: the same Dwade who's individual numbers dipped (along with bosh AND LeBrons), but has a career eFG% the past few years and career TRB%, but lower usage rating!?

Bosh: career eFG% and better efficiency?!

Allen: same per36 as his last few seasons in boston. He's supposed to get better or stay the same at the age of 38 right? plays 10 minutes less per game than his last few boston years.

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I remmeber guys like Ilgauskas, Varejao, Williams and Hughes whose careers thrived with Lebron, and went to shite when he left Cleveland.

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Then you remembered wrong. Z retired and Varejao's career took off.

But if you wanna go that route, let's go back to the Lakers 2005-2007. How did those younger guys fare after leaving Kobe and the Lakers?


Kwame Brown? Cut
Smush Parker? Cut
Luke Walton? Cut
Brian Cook? Cut
Devean George? Cut
Devin Green? Cut
Sasha Vujacic? Cut
Von Wafer? Cut
Laron Profit? Cut
Lamar Odom? Cut
Chris Mihm (spent 90% injured, didn't play)? Cut
Medvedenko? Cut
Jim Jackson? Gone
Aaron McKie? Gone
Bynum (who didn't play then) - perpetually injured
Turiaf (Didn't play in those year due to heart issues)? Bench player

So how did they survive in the NBA post Kobe? Depending on how you define McKie and Jackson's departures 90% of that team was cut from the NBA.

All that remains is a Bynum (who didn't even play then) who is injured seasons at a time and Turiaf (who had heart issues then) who is a bench player today.

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Bynum: 7 years, injury prone, but when he actually played he was pretty good.

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Several years ago there were Laker fans on this forum who thought Bynum was better than Howard going forward

Why do yall keep replying to this guy? He has been trolling the MSB forever with his fake Kobe obsession.

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big z was old as frick. he played majority of his career with LeBron. Do you expect him to play til he's 50?

varejao's "career took off". He had ONE great year and the rest he's still putting up the same numbers since LeBron's days in cleveland.

Brown: 3 years, his best few years were right before LA

Parker: 2 years, gonna use your argument against you here. His PER36 numbers were actually BETTER before joining the lakers

Cook: 5 years, PER36 were better after the lakers

George: 7 years, won 3 rings as well and averaged the same per36 his whole laker tenure and for some parts after as well.

Green: 1 year, he was bad

Vujacic: 7 years, 2 rings, best year wasn't even in LA

Wafer: 1 year, best year was after LA in houston with higher PER36 numbers there.

Profit: 1year, had career highs there.

Odom: 7 years, best bench player you guys had in those 2 rings. He was bad alright (played 14 years in the league)

Mihm: 1.5 years, productive player then injuries and retirement

Medvedenko: 6 years, won 2 rings in the early 2k

Jackson: played since freaking 92 and joined you guys in '05. Of course he was gonna be gone.

McKie: iirc, drafted in '94 and joined you guys in '05 as well. Obviously he's a young gun

Bynum: 7 years, injury prone, but when he actually played he was pretty good.

Turiaf: 3 years, same numbers throughout his career post LA

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Big Z: Obviously. I wasn't the tard that implied his retirement = him sucking post Lebron. At least I pointed out McKie and Jackson's departure could be interpreted as retirement - which you either didn't read or ignored. That doesn't negate the fact Big Z was better before Lebron.

varejao: his best years by a long shot were after Lebron.

Bynum: impact in 2005-2007 - minimal - health. Lakers actually had a better record without him even when he was good and not injured. Career high PER with Kobe.

Turiaf: impact in 2005-2007 - minimal - health. Career high PER with Kobe.

Jackson and McKie: addressed. Didn't really even play. Combined for 300 minutes between them for two years.

Mihm: no impact. Health issues. Career high PER with Kobe.

Odom: nutcase. Best years as a a Laker. Immediately cut on departure. Career high PER with Kobe.

Parker: keep making up stats. Highest PER with Lakers. Cut following year.

Green: played ONE year with Lakers. Cut immediately after. Obviously Career high PER with Kobe.

Profit: career high PER with Kobe. Cut following year. Keep making up stats.

Medvedenko: highest PER playing with Kobe. Lasted one year before the axe after leaving.

Vujacic: career high PER with Kobe. After leaving Lasted two seasons before getting cut while still in his 20's.

Von Wafer: was a rookie with Kobe. Didn't play. No impact. Career in NBA was short. Cut

George: career high PER with Kobe. Lasted a few seasons after. Done.

Cook: career high PER with Kobe. Lasted a few years after. Done.

Walton: career high PER with Kobe. Cut immediately after.

Brown: Career high in PER before Lakers and Jordan tore him down. 2 of the best consistent PER years were with Kobe however. Didn't last long after. Cut.

So let's recap now with actual stats:

Of the 13 players who actually played with Kobe meaningfully (removing Jackson and McKie as they would average less than 50 seconds a game...literally - Wafer sat on bench as rookie): TWELVE of them had career years WITH Kobe and were cut soon after leaving him.

92+% of his teammates played their career best alongside him.

That's a testament of two things: those teams were really bad, and Kobe made them better.