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re: MLB Off-Season Thread: Story to Red Sox, Solar to Marlins
Posted on 11/20/21 at 2:30 pm to Chadaristic
Posted on 11/20/21 at 2:30 pm to Chadaristic
quote:
Yankees offered Verlander $25M 1-year deal. Solid offer but weren’t going to beat the $50M 2-year deal with opt out he got from Astros
2
Posted on 11/21/21 at 9:39 am to tduecen
quote:
MLB has notified our clubs that outfielder Seiya Suzuki will be posted as of tomorrow morning. Signing deadline is 5:00 p.m. (ET) on Monday, Dec. 22.
Posted on 11/21/21 at 4:14 pm to tduecen
quote:
José Quintana has deal with Pirates. 1 year MLB deal. @ByRobertMurray 1st
quote:
Catcher Pedro Severino and the Milwaukee Brewers are in agreement on a one-year, $1.9 million contract, pending physical, sources familiar with the deal tell ESPN. Severino, 28, will join Omar Narvaez at catcher and has incentives in the deal that can earn him another $400,000.
This post was edited on 11/21/21 at 4:16 pm
Posted on 11/21/21 at 4:33 pm to SteelerBravesDawg
There is no criteria outside of made up "metrics" to have Crawford and Turner ahead of Riley, or even Freeman. I don't think the metrics even like Crawford, defensively, and if his defense isn't putting him over Riley, he certainly doesn't have the offensive numbers. Turner is a great hitter and solid defender, but he's not a big time run producer. It just goes to show how "WAR" is not based on anything objective. The fact that anyone would use that as their main criteria is criminal.
We have not seen where that stat has previously influenced the writers nearly as much as it does with pundits. And I said I expected Riley to finish third because writers would value his overall production and defense, and fact that he played on a winning team. I also thought he deserved to be ahead of Tatis because he was NOT available for more than a month worth of games. But I didn't expect he would pass Tatis, because people are convinced he's the greatest thing ever, even if he's not playing a game.
Well, some guy said I wouldn't be back here if I turned out to be wrong. But here I am. Not sure why this guy thought I would be afraid of being wrong, but my opinion, which was based on historical process for how these awards go, seemed to really bother him that day. This is a very disappointing shift that shows the clueless mob has infected another aspect of baseball.
We have not seen where that stat has previously influenced the writers nearly as much as it does with pundits. And I said I expected Riley to finish third because writers would value his overall production and defense, and fact that he played on a winning team. I also thought he deserved to be ahead of Tatis because he was NOT available for more than a month worth of games. But I didn't expect he would pass Tatis, because people are convinced he's the greatest thing ever, even if he's not playing a game.
Well, some guy said I wouldn't be back here if I turned out to be wrong. But here I am. Not sure why this guy thought I would be afraid of being wrong, but my opinion, which was based on historical process for how these awards go, seemed to really bother him that day. This is a very disappointing shift that shows the clueless mob has infected another aspect of baseball.
Posted on 11/21/21 at 5:08 pm to Metaloctopus
Posted on 11/21/21 at 5:18 pm to Metaloctopus
quote:
There is no criteria outside of made up "metrics" to have Crawford and Turner ahead of Riley, or even Freeman.
Posted on 11/21/21 at 9:23 pm to tduecen
So you and West coast have nothing intelligent to say? What a surprise.
Posted on 11/21/21 at 9:30 pm to Metaloctopus
Turner had a higher OPS., led the league in steals and plays a harder defensive position. What is your argument for Riley or Freeman finishing ahead of him?
Posted on 11/21/21 at 9:45 pm to diremustang
quote:
What is your argument for Rile
I’d love to hear it.
“He got on base at a lower clip. He slugged at a lower percentage. He was laughably inferior as a base runner and defender. He scored less runs. But he did knock in more runs because he batted in a more advantageous spot in the lineup for RBIs.
This post was edited on 11/21/21 at 9:46 pm
Posted on 11/22/21 at 4:15 am to The Seaward
Riley did have 13 DRS vs 6 for Crawford and 4 for Turner so he was better defensively.
However you are correct offensively outside of home runs and RBI he wasn't better...
Crawford hit .298/.373/.522/.895 for a 141 OPS+
Turner hit .328/.375/.536/.911 for a 146 OPS+
Riley hit .303/.367/.531/.898 for a 136 OPS+
But Riley did hit 33 home runs vs 28 for Turner and 24 for Crawford and drove in 107 vs 77 for Turner and 90 for Crawford.
However you are correct offensively outside of home runs and RBI he wasn't better...
Crawford hit .298/.373/.522/.895 for a 141 OPS+
Turner hit .328/.375/.536/.911 for a 146 OPS+
Riley hit .303/.367/.531/.898 for a 136 OPS+
But Riley did hit 33 home runs vs 28 for Turner and 24 for Crawford and drove in 107 vs 77 for Turner and 90 for Crawford.
Posted on 11/22/21 at 6:55 am to tduecen
UZR had Riley at -7. Now which one is more accurate between UZR and DRS, I have no clue. I’d imagine it is somewhere in between. Either way, Turner and Crawford both play a more valuable/more difficult to play position. No way Riley could handle SS.
This post was edited on 11/22/21 at 7:01 am
Posted on 11/22/21 at 7:40 am to diremustang
quote:
Turner had a higher OPS., led the league in steals and plays a harder defensive position. What is your argument for Riley or Freeman finishing ahead of him?
Turner wasn't close in RBI, which wasn't simply due to the fact that Riley hit in a "more advantageous" spot in the lineup. Riley was one the best hitters with runners in scoring position in all of baseball. That should mean something, but it doesn't to some.
And playing a "harder"" position is a weak argument. The question is not what position you play, but do you play it well? Riley excelled as shown by his defensive runs saved, where as Turner and Crawford didn't really make a huge impact at their positions, You think they could have played third base better than Riley, since you want to argue that he can't play their position? You don't the kind of rockets that a third baseman sees from the shortstop position. I'll give you that shortstop sees a lot more action. That's not arguable. But saying "So and so plays a harder position" is not a valid argument if you can't show me that they were anything more than ok at their position.
As for Freeman being ahead of Turner, his on base-prowess and presence, alone, is more valuable than Turner, even in a "down" year for him. The people who live by all the numbers like exit velocity and BABIP will tell you that he was extremely unlucky this year, and he still had huge numbers by any normal standard.
Posted on 11/22/21 at 7:45 am to Metaloctopus
quote:
Turner wasn't close in RBI, which wasn't simply due to the fact that Riley hit in a "more advantageous" spot in the lineup. Riley was one the best hitters with runners in scoring position in all of baseball. That should mean something, but it doesn't to some.
Riley hit .313 with an .863 OPS with RISP.
Turner hit .324 with an .870 OPS with RISP.
They both hit .346 with 2 outs and RISP. Pretty solid.
This post was edited on 11/22/21 at 7:46 am
Posted on 11/22/21 at 7:49 am to LSUBoo
I think he is a fairly solid troll, his ballot would have looked like this Braves Player, Braves Player, Braves Player, Braves Player, Braves Player, Braves Player, Braves Player, Braves Player, Harper
Posted on 11/22/21 at 8:00 am to Metaloctopus
quote:
The question is not what position you play, but do you play it well?
That is not true at all. From a defensive prospective, an average shortstop is certainly more valuable and a better defender than an above average first baseman.
This post was edited on 11/22/21 at 8:03 am
Posted on 11/22/21 at 8:07 am to The Seaward
quote:
That is not true at all. From a defensive prospective, an average shortstop is certainly more valuable and a better defender than an above average first baseman.
If you're average, that means you can throw in just about anyone at that position and they'd be just as good. Hence the term "average". If you're going to move the needle with your defense, you better be more than average.
Posted on 11/22/21 at 8:11 am to tduecen
quote:
I think he is a fairly solid troll, his ballot would have looked like this Braves Player, Braves Player, Braves Player, Braves Player, Braves Player, Braves Player, Braves Player, Braves Player, Harper
I'm not a troll. The only guys from the Braves who would be on my ballot were Freeman and Riley, and Freeman wouldn't have made my top five.
This post was edited on 11/22/21 at 8:12 am
Posted on 11/22/21 at 8:22 am to Metaloctopus
quote:
If you're average, that means you can throw in just about anyone at that position and they'd be just as good. Hence the term "average". If you're going to move the needle with your defense, you better be more than average.
You cannot throw anyone in at SS and they would be an average SS. No 1B could handle SS no matter how good they are at 1B. They would all be well below average there. On the other hand, pretty much all SS could handle 1B.
Posted on 11/22/21 at 8:47 am to The Seaward
quote:
You cannot throw anyone in at SS and they would be an average SS. No 1B could handle SS no matter how good they are at 1B. They would all be well below average there. On the other hand, pretty much all SS could handle 1B.
First of all I didn't mean it as anyone, at all, I meant any shortstop from around the league could be plugged in and be just as good there, if we're talking about average. And no, not any shortstop could play first base. How old are you, and how much baseball have you watched or played? You can put a guy at first and ask him to catch throws, but handling those close range liners and hard grounders, as well as stretching and bailing out all of the bad throws that (*gasp*) shortstops, among others, make is an entirely different skillset. If it weren't we'd see a lot more little guys playing first base for the sake of fitting bats in the lineup. That is a move that is typically done out of desperation.
This post was edited on 11/22/21 at 8:49 am
Posted on 11/22/21 at 8:58 am to The Seaward
I think Yuli could handle SS average or better... but he came up as an above average defender at 3B, has turned into a gold glove defender at 1B, and most importantly, he's right-handed.
ETA: Obviously any left-handed 1B couldn't play SS in the majors.
ETA: Obviously any left-handed 1B couldn't play SS in the majors.
This post was edited on 11/22/21 at 9:02 am
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