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re: MJ vs Kobe vs LBJ .... comparison thru 10 seasons
Posted on 2/3/14 at 2:43 pm to PrimeTime Money
Posted on 2/3/14 at 2:43 pm to PrimeTime Money
quote:
I'd rather they do the stats based on their age, but cut out LeBron and Kobe's seasons when Jordan was in college.
Count LeBron and Kobe's first 3 seasons as their "college" seasons, and compare MJ, LeBron, and Kobe's stats from the same age starting with when Jordan entered the NBA.
I'd be interested to see that.
Taking away Kobe and Lebron's first 3 seasons in the NBA and comparing them with MJ through the season each was 29 years old, (which is this season for Lebron):
3
Posted on 2/3/14 at 2:47 pm to SPEEDY
28.3/5.9/5.3 45.5 fg%
vs
27.9/7.5/7.0 51.1 fg%
vs.
32.3/6.3/5.9 51.6 fg%
If you showed me those stats without putting names in it, I'm picking the 2nd 2 every single time. that's so much more dominant/well-rounded. Kobe's weakest point in his game and why i dont think he's top 5. he has NEVER had a season where he hit 47% of his shots.
vs
27.9/7.5/7.0 51.1 fg%
vs.
32.3/6.3/5.9 51.6 fg%
If you showed me those stats without putting names in it, I'm picking the 2nd 2 every single time. that's so much more dominant/well-rounded. Kobe's weakest point in his game and why i dont think he's top 5. he has NEVER had a season where he hit 47% of his shots.
This post was edited on 2/3/14 at 2:50 pm
Posted on 2/3/14 at 2:51 pm to htran90
So outside of points over LBJ by 0.4 ppg, Kobe is behind both of them in every other category.
GOAT!!!!!
GOAT!!!!!
Posted on 2/3/14 at 2:53 pm to htran90
quote:
Kobe's weakest point in his game and why i dont think he's top 5. he has NEVER had a season where he hit 47% of his shots.
Numbers are no worst/better than Jordan(although Jordan was the much bigger ballhog) & if you take 3 point shots into consideration his efg% is similar.
Posted on 2/3/14 at 2:56 pm to PhiTiger1764
quote:
There's just no way..
Why? They are all dominant.
Hakeem is better than Kobe, I am sorry to tell you that.
Malone is arguably they best PF ever (Duncan and others are up there).
Robertson is one of the best combo guards if not the best combo guard ever.
You clearly underrate Gervin and West, who are both elite players in their own right.
Kobe is a great player, but again, ignore the fact that his teams always required a dominant 7-footer or 2 to win him a championship, and claim he's a top 5 player.
He's a top 20 player easily and likely top 15, but people saying he's for certain top 10 know very little about basketball before the late 90's.
Posted on 2/3/14 at 2:58 pm to KG5989
Kobe had prime Shaq as well. We all know who won those 3 titles.
Posted on 2/3/14 at 3:02 pm to Korin
quote:
Kobe had prime Shaq as well. We all know who won those 3 titles.
Yeah , because Shaq singlehandedly won multiple rings the previous 8 seasons before the 3-peat?
Posted on 2/3/14 at 3:02 pm to KG5989
So...................Jordan is the GOAT.
Posted on 2/3/14 at 3:05 pm to sugar71
quote:
Yeah , because Shaq singlehandedly won multiple rings the previous 8 seasons before the 3-peat?
No, but when you have likely the most dominant player in the league on your team, like Jordan was for the Bulls, you are going to look better. Kobe was a key piece and crucial piece in those teams, but he wasn't the best player on his team in his first 3 titles, like Jordan was or as Lebron has been in the last two.
Again, Kobe has 5 titles, 3 were dominated by Shaq, and the 5th he was bailed out by Gasol. Celtics should've. Kobe lucked out that his horrific play didn't cost his team that title.
Posted on 2/3/14 at 3:06 pm to PhiTiger1764
quote:I can understand you not agreeing with the other guys since they were before your time...
There's just no way..
but how can you say that about Hakeem?
Do you realize how incredible he was? And this isn't even me talking as a Rockets fan. Just as a basketball fan.
Posted on 2/3/14 at 3:07 pm to Geauxgurt
quote:
Kobe is a great player, but again, ignore the fact that his teams always required a dominant 7-footer or 2 to win him a championship, and claim he's a top 5 player.
While were at it, let's ignore the fact that Shaq always required the best 2 guard in the league to win him a championship.
See how easy it is to do that?
I can make similar arguments with every player you listed. At the end of the day, 5 rings is 5 rings and that has to count for something.
Posted on 2/3/14 at 3:09 pm to KG5989
So basically...
Jordan
James
Bryant
Jordan
James
Bryant
Posted on 2/3/14 at 3:11 pm to PhiTiger1764
quote:
While were at it, let's ignore the fact that Shaq always required the best 2 guard in the league to win him a championship.
See how easy it is to do that?
I can make similar arguments with every player you listed. At the end of the day, 5 rings is 5 rings and that has to count for something.
No player wins a title on their own. NONE. But are really telling me that if you take off Shaq from those teams and put an above average center on that team, they win anything?
Are you really trying to say that Shaq wasn't the alpha male and more dominant player on those title teams?
Shaq was the focal point of that 3-peat. Everything revolved around him. Plain and simple. Kobe wasn't until the 2009 title. Hell, even Magic was the most dominant player on the court his rookie year in the finals.
This post was edited on 2/3/14 at 3:14 pm
Posted on 2/3/14 at 3:12 pm to PrimeTime Money
quote:
but how can you say that about Hakeem?
Ok, I can see arguing Hakeem ahead of him. They play completely different positions. Hard to compare.
Posted on 2/3/14 at 3:13 pm to Geauxgurt
quote:
No player wins a title on their own. NONE. But are really telling me that if you take off Shaq from those teams and put an above average center on that team, they win anything? Are you really trying to say that Shaq wasn't the alpha male and more dominant player on those title teams?
I am not saying any of that.
And Kobe wasn't just "an above average guard." He was elite.
This post was edited on 2/3/14 at 3:14 pm
Posted on 2/3/14 at 3:15 pm to PhiTiger1764
quote:
I am not saying any of that.
And Kobe wasn't just "an above average guard." He was elite.
My point was that you can't say anything other than Shaq was the dominant player on that team. There isn't any question of it.
Are you going to say that Pippen is near as good as Jordan because of the titles? No. It was clear that Jordan was the best player on those title teams. Same with Shaq in 2000-2002.
In the end, Kobe has been a great player, but he's severely overrated by many.
Posted on 2/3/14 at 3:16 pm to sugar71
quote:
Yeah , because Shaq singlehandedly won multiple rings the previous 8 seasons before the 3-peat?
Who was mvp of those 3 titles?
Posted on 2/3/14 at 3:21 pm to SPEEDY
points per shot - starting them off at the same age and Kobe and Jordan are almost identical due to the number of three pointers Kobe shot combined with free throws.
Phil Jackson refused to post Kobe up the majority of his career even though Kobe has proven to be one of the best post up players ever. See Highlights...dude had ever move mastered with the best footwork in history.
Shaq clogging the lane force Kobe to be an outside player. Therefore he shot more outside shots.
Lebron has recently learned how to post up after 10 years in the league but has never had to worry about HAVING to take outside shots because he could just bulldoze his way to the lane, commit offensive fouls galore, never be called for them, travel, and somehow find himself on the free throw line.
Jordan was more of a post up player once PJ arrived and the offense ran through him as a post up player, therefore his shot selection was obviously better. The centers on the Bulls teams at that time were, as a result, nothing but mid-range jump shooters.
Put Kobe in either one of MJ's or LBJ's systems and how they came in and his "stats" would be prettier.
The proof is in the pudding. Go watch the actual game film. Kobe mastered the game. He had ALL the fundamentals. He had ALL the moves.
MJ and LBJ can't say that.
Oh and by the way...Kobe was on TWELVE All-NBA defensive teams.
Phil Jackson refused to post Kobe up the majority of his career even though Kobe has proven to be one of the best post up players ever. See Highlights...dude had ever move mastered with the best footwork in history.
Shaq clogging the lane force Kobe to be an outside player. Therefore he shot more outside shots.
Lebron has recently learned how to post up after 10 years in the league but has never had to worry about HAVING to take outside shots because he could just bulldoze his way to the lane, commit offensive fouls galore, never be called for them, travel, and somehow find himself on the free throw line.
Jordan was more of a post up player once PJ arrived and the offense ran through him as a post up player, therefore his shot selection was obviously better. The centers on the Bulls teams at that time were, as a result, nothing but mid-range jump shooters.
Put Kobe in either one of MJ's or LBJ's systems and how they came in and his "stats" would be prettier.
The proof is in the pudding. Go watch the actual game film. Kobe mastered the game. He had ALL the fundamentals. He had ALL the moves.
MJ and LBJ can't say that.
Oh and by the way...Kobe was on TWELVE All-NBA defensive teams.
Posted on 2/3/14 at 3:23 pm to theunknownknight
MJ went to the Finals 6x and was the mvp in every single of them. Kobe can't say that.
Posted on 2/3/14 at 3:25 pm to Korin
quote:
Who was mvp of those 3 titles?
By DESIGN. The Lakers were playing Eastern teams with terrible inside defense that had gotten to those finals by great perimeter play.
That's like saying Tony Parker is better than Tim Duncan because the game plan called for him to exploit the Cavs in the 2007 Finals - cough cough Lebron James.
It was Kobe who carried the Lakers through the true Gauntlet in those years...the Spurs and the Western Conference.
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