re: MJ: “I would never call myself the greatest ever”

I mean, "illegal defense" was a thing, for crying out loud

I think the best way to approach these topics is to just acknowledge the best players from their era. Too many folks get their feelings hurt when it's pointed out that the heroes of yesteryear set a bar, but sports is always about pushing the limit and raising said bar.

Defenses of the 80s and 90s would be absolutely flummoxed by the versatility of a James, a Dirk, a Westbrook, etc.

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This is the sort of revisionist history I roll my eyes at with MJ.

MJ was notoriously vicious and mentally destroyed multiple teammates. He made an 18 year old Kwame Brown cry in the locker room multiple times and it crippled Kwame's career. He was such an a-hole to Rodney McCray that people thought he ended McCray's career.

People didn't play up the nasty side of MJ because he existed pre-social media. Some of the stuff he did, he'd be pilloried for it today.

That's my biggest complaint about this thread. LeBron is an egotistical, cocky guy. So was MJ, and it makes me shake my head that LeBron's ego has people dogging him who turn around and support MJ's ego as part and parcel of his greatness.

Great players are almost always cocky and self-absorbed.

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Well said. It's hilarious how what's good for the goose isn't good for the gander.

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mark price clips is pretty cringe worthy to be honest and this was MJs main competition. Lmao

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Stop lying because Price wasn’t his main competition You are complaining about changing the narrative yet you just did it

I think the main point of the recent discussions is that Jordan is more self-aware as a human being. Does Lebron not even realize that making those comments give ammo to all of his haters?

I fully believe the intense hate (or legit criticism) of our society made Jordan and Lebron perform even better on the court than they would have without that 'fuel'. However, with Lebron, it seems as though he has some insecurities that allow that hate to fester inside of him and then he feels that he has to prove certain things about himself.

Jordan had to break through the well established franchises that had everything going for them in the East (Pistons, Celtics, even the Hawks). They had fully loaded rosters and threw everything at Jordan, including nearly criminal thuggery.

To bring up Mark Price as evidence just makes it sound like you are trolling.

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Jordan had to break through the well established franchises that had everything going for them in the East (Pistons, Celtics, even the Hawks). They had fully loaded rosters and threw everything at Jordan, including nearly criminal thuggery.

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Lebron went through two championship organizations in the east(pistons and Celtics), but people say all his trips to the finals were easy with no competition

Now you see how narratives are written?

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However, with Lebron, it seems as though he has some insecurities that allow that hate to fester inside of him and then he feels that he has to prove certain things about himself.

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Jesus, I can't imagine writing such a BS comment

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Mark Price would be even better in today's NBA than he was back then. 

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Oh my heart

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I think the main point of the recent discussions is that Jordan is more self-aware as a human being. Does Lebron not even realize that making those comments give ammo to all of his haters?

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Eh, I don't think LeBron or Jordan give/gave a frick about their haters. James puts himself out there more, but some of that is just a function of the ubiquity of social media/the 24 hour news cycle.

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However, with Lebron, it seems as though he has some insecurities that allow that hate to fester inside of him and then he feels that he has to prove certain things about himself.

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Objectively speaking, both MJ and LeBron are incredibly insecure, narcissistic human beings. It's not even really up for debate--the foibles of both are well-chronicled. That's hardly unique in the realm of professional athletes, however. Most are exactly that--that trait of thinking you're God's gift to the sport is basically what drives the majority of guys who make it to the league and stick for any length of time. Whether or not it's true is kind of irrelevant in their own minds. LeBron and Jordan just happen to be the latest two to have separated themselves as head and shoulders above the peers against whom they played.

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Mark Price would be even better in today's NBA than he was back then. 

No more hand checking.

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I never thought I'd see the day when I saw a comment about how rules changes would benefit...Mark Price.