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re: Michael Wilbon doesn't think Lebron or Durant would dominate the 80s and 90s
Posted on 5/5/20 at 11:58 am to RLDSC FAN
Posted on 5/5/20 at 11:58 am to RLDSC FAN
I think Michael would be fine in todays game.
He would do what a lot of shooting stars do, take a step back start shooting way more 3s and he was always great driving to the basket.
Likewise I see Lebron being good in the 80s and 90s. He wouldn't be MJ, but he would be good. His floor is Karl Malone. His Ceiling is Karl Malone mixed with Magic.
Durant is intereating. He is a great shooter, but thin. He isn't going to get good spacing in the 80's and 90's and I don't know how he does banging around.
I have said before I think the 90's bulls match up well with the Warriors
Jordan and Pippen are two of the best perimeter defenders maybe ever, and yeah who is stopping Jordan?
He would do what a lot of shooting stars do, take a step back start shooting way more 3s and he was always great driving to the basket.
Likewise I see Lebron being good in the 80s and 90s. He wouldn't be MJ, but he would be good. His floor is Karl Malone. His Ceiling is Karl Malone mixed with Magic.
Durant is intereating. He is a great shooter, but thin. He isn't going to get good spacing in the 80's and 90's and I don't know how he does banging around.
I have said before I think the 90's bulls match up well with the Warriors
Jordan and Pippen are two of the best perimeter defenders maybe ever, and yeah who is stopping Jordan?
2
Posted on 5/5/20 at 12:05 pm to SammyTiger
quote:
Jordan and Pippen are two of the best perimeter defenders maybe ever, and yeah who is stopping Jordan?
Actually, the prime Warriors match up fairly well with the Bulls. I don't think anyone's stopping MJ, but the Warriors always benefitted from Iggy and Klay being strong perimeter defenders. Those two would draw the Jordan/Pippen matchups.
Durant is the only player that I genuinely don't see a matchup for. Rodman wasn't defending on the perimeter by the time he was with the Bulls. He traded in perimeter D for rebounds and post D. The Bulls don't have anyone to check Durant unless they went with Pippen, which causes problems down the line.
I think I've said this before, but pre-KD Warriors/Bulls would have been a fascinating series. The post-KD Warriors had too much firepower.
Posted on 5/5/20 at 12:08 pm to Rep520
quote:this. The post KD Warriors won two titles and almost a third without ever getting out of third gear
I think I've said this before, but pre-KD Warriors/Bulls would have been a fascinating series. The post-KD Warriors had too much firepower.
Posted on 5/5/20 at 12:11 pm to Rep520
Firepower????? The game was so different back then compared to today’s game. Ok how about MJ, Pippen, Kerr, Kucoc all jacking up threes like the Warriors do.... plus Rodman would OWN Green from the First tip. Durant is the only matchup problem for the Bulls, and yet who stops MJ.
Posted on 5/5/20 at 12:17 pm to dukke v
quote:
Ok how about MJ, Pippen, Kerr, Kucoc all jacking up threes like the Warriors do
MJ was a career .326 3 point shooter, Pippen was .327 and Kukoc was .335.
Comparatively, Steph is .435, Klay is .419 and Durant is .381.
If it turned into a 3 point contest, the Warriors would smoke the Bulls. The Bulls best shot would be the opposite.
Posted on 5/5/20 at 12:18 pm to Rep520
quote:
I think I've said this before, but pre-KD Warriors/Bulls would have been a fascinating series. The post-KD Warriors had too much firepower.
I probably agree with this, but I think the bulls could still push them.
Posted on 5/5/20 at 12:21 pm to Rep520
Ok but wait. The Bulls didn’t run an offense based on threes.... if they worked on that compared to doing what they did they would be way better% wise.
Posted on 5/5/20 at 12:34 pm to SammyTiger
quote:
He isn't going to get good spacing in the 80's and 90's
uh, why? are they playing with 80s/90s rules?
Posted on 5/5/20 at 12:39 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
who the frick could guard Durant with 80s/90s Ds?
Scottie Pippen or Rodman.
Posted on 5/5/20 at 12:43 pm to chalmetteowl
quote:
The post-KD Warriors had too much firepower.
this. The post KD Warriors won two titles
Let's not forget that the 18 team was down 3-2 to the rockets when Chris Paul went down. That squad wasn't unbeatable.
Posted on 5/5/20 at 12:47 pm to STLhog
quote:
Scottie Pippen or Rodman.
Rodman wasn't a perimeter D guy by the time he got to the Bulls. He didn't defend anyone but posts at that point.
Pippen could have guarded Durant, but the problem for the Bulls with that is it makes MJ check either Steph or Klay and burn a ton of energy chasing them off screens. Especially from 95 on, the Bulls didn't like burning MJ's energy like that.
Posted on 5/5/20 at 12:52 pm to Rep520
quote:
Rodman wasn't a perimeter D guy by the time he got to the Bulls. He didn't defend anyone but posts at that point.
Fair, its just a lot of hypotheticals and a different game. Do the bulls start to switch? How effective would they have been switching etc etc?
And fully agree its a lot of firepower to defend but the same can be said about the Bulls.
Be it as it may, there is more to the word "greatness" than stats and arguing over what team would win 1 on 1 is just a waste of time and energy.
What I think most can agree on is what the Bulls did will likely never be repeated again. I think we can say that with about 95% certainty, and that is all that matters in my eyes. The warriors were incredible but they lose a TON of points for blowing the 3-1 lead. Even if it was to LeBron.
All of the above is pure opinion mind you. I just think of a lot more when I think of "greatness".
And to the original topic, LeBron and KD would be great players in any era. Saying otherwise is just stupid and overly nostalgic.
This post was edited on 5/5/20 at 12:55 pm
Posted on 5/5/20 at 1:04 pm to STLhog
quote:
Fair, its just a lot of hypotheticals and a different game. Do the bulls start to switch? How effective would they have been switching etc etc?
The biggest problem the Bulls would have is that they had traditional centers who weren't scoring threats.
The Warriors could attack guys like Longley and Wennington on D all day because neither could switch onto a perimeter player. You really only survive that if they can make you pay on the other end, which Longley and Wennington couldn't.
The Bulls would have had to do a lot with a lineup of Kukoc, Rodman, Pip, MJ and Harper. It sort of leaves the same issue where Kukoc is probably on Durant unless you want MJ chasing Klay or Steph.
quote:
The warriors were incredible but they lose a TON of points for blowing the 3-1 lead.
That was the pre-KD Warriors, and I'd agree that group was a lot more vulnerable to the Bulls.
I do agree with your base point, though. LeBron, KD, MJ and Pippen would have been all time greats in any era. MJ and Pip would have adjusted fine to today's 3 centric game. LeBron and KD would have been fine with 80's/90's rules. They're all greats for a reason.
Posted on 5/5/20 at 1:06 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
uh, why? are they playing with 80s/90s rules?
I sorta mixed hypos. The first part is about MJ, Durand and Lebron playing in each other's time.
The last parti s a hypothetical matchup between the 90s bulls and Todays's warriors.
Posted on 5/5/20 at 1:22 pm to STLhog
quote:
Scottie Pippen
ok cool. one guy. we'll say 2 with jordan (2 guys. 1 team)
i don't know any role players who only have 1 team who can check him
Posted on 5/5/20 at 1:27 pm to SlowFlowPro
Ok the real question is what RULES are in place here. But I will say this.... the refs in the Bulls run swallowed the whistle .
Posted on 5/5/20 at 1:29 pm to Rep520
quote:
The Warriors could attack guys like Longley and Wennington on D all day because neither could switch onto a perimeter player. You really only survive that if they can make you pay on the other end, which Longley and Wennington couldn't.
The Bulls would have had to do a lot with a lineup of Kukoc, Rodman, Pip, MJ and Harper. It sort of leaves the same issue where Kukoc is probably on Durant unless you want MJ chasing Klay or Steph.
Don't disagree with much of this.
Also have to factor in truely legal zone defense. Who knows how the Bulls would have looked potentially playing an advanced zone etc.
Just hard to compare and like I said before, does it really matter? (I think we basically agree).
Posted on 5/5/20 at 1:42 pm to Rep520
quote:
MJ was a career .326 3 point shooter, Pippen was .327 and Kukoc was .335.
Sure but they also weren't taking as many shots, it was emphasized in either strategy or practice to be taking 3s and Jordan was still a .332 shooter with the bulls.
We see in todays game, when players are coached to focus more on 3s they often end up improving their 3 pt %
Posted on 5/5/20 at 1:48 pm to SECdragonmaster
Posted on 5/5/20 at 1:49 pm to SammyTiger
Can you imagine Pistol Pete having a 3 point line in college??????
Just let that sink in. He had a 44.2 avg without one.....
:OMG:
Just let that sink in. He had a 44.2 avg without one.....
:OMG:
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