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Started By
Message
re: Lynn Swann: Calvin Johnson has not done enough to be considered a HOFer
Posted on 2/10/16 at 1:15 pm to sms151t
Posted on 2/10/16 at 1:15 pm to sms151t
quote:
Carmichael and Branch deserve to be in.
Carmichael had a 100+ game receiving record that was broken by Largent.
I have never said that those two didnt.
I wasn't attacking you just saying Swann is probably not the best person to make the argument against someone else( especially receiver) not being in.
No argument on the different eras from me though.
Passing numbers are inflated because the NFL sold out for more scoring / passing.
1
Posted on 2/10/16 at 1:16 pm to sugar71
quote:
sugar71
And there it is.... Nice work.........
Posted on 2/10/16 at 1:18 pm to sugar71
quote:
Passing numbers are inflated because the NFL sold out for more scoring / passing.
BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted on 2/10/16 at 1:22 pm to dukke v
Peej I believe Tony Hill, Sammy White, and John Jefferson all have comparable numbers but none deserve in HOF.
I think Jefferson did his in 8 years.
I think Jefferson did his in 8 years.
Posted on 2/10/16 at 1:23 pm to dukke v
Swann had a brilliant catch in the Super Bowl on a team that won 4 titles. Then he went and worked for the media and broadcasting. So one wonders if he went the route of Carter, using his buddies to help him.
Posted on 2/10/16 at 1:23 pm to sms151t
quote:
all have comparable numbers but none deserve in HOF.
So why is Swann in and they are not??????
Posted on 2/10/16 at 1:30 pm to sms151t
quote:
Hard to say what Swann would have done with the rules in place. And you can not compare Johnson to Swann but compare him to his peers.
Swann was a 1x All Pro and only finished top 5 in receiving yds / TDs once. That is garbage compared to his peers
Johnson basically rewrote the receiving game in this new pass happy league.
This post was edited on 2/10/16 at 1:33 pm
Posted on 2/10/16 at 1:36 pm to dukke v
quote:
The pro football HOF is a joke compared to the baseball HOF..........
And when you consider how incredibly incompetent and biased the Baseball HOF is, that is REALLY saying something.
Posted on 2/10/16 at 1:36 pm to sms151t
quote:
Peej I believe Tony Hill, Sammy White, and John Jefferson all have comparable numbers but none deserve in HOF.
Sammy White is a decent comparison & straddled those eras being drafted in 75 , ,but Tony Hill & John Jefferson were younger & the new generation.
Jefferson ( I was a huge Chargers fan) & Hill were drafted in 77/78 respectively & they basically never played under the old rules.
They should be compared to later receivers like Art Monk & James Lofton more than Lynn Swann.
Posted on 2/10/16 at 2:05 pm to sugar71
Let's take a look at the Steelers offense when Swann played for them.
1974 - 1,958yds passing, 2,417yds rushing
1975 - 2,254yds passing, 2,633yds rushing
1976 - 1,666yds passing, 2,971yds rushing
1977 - 2,387yds passing, 2,258yds rushing
1978 - 2,699yds passing, 2,297yds rushing
1979 - 3,655yds passing, 2,603yds rushing
1980 - 3,568yds passing, 1,986yds rushing
1981 - 3,226yds passing, 2,372yds rushing
1982 - 1,768yds passing, 1,187yds rushing strike shortened season
The game was played differently during Swann's career. Teams ran the ball >60% of plays. 1978 is when the Mel Blount Rule went into effect, and you can see the effect it had on passing yardage. Passing became even more predominant with the later liberalization of the offensive holding rules.
Swann came up big in big moments. He shone brightest when the spotlight was on. He left lasting impressions for those who got to see him make spectacular plays when all eyes were watching.
1974 - 1,958yds passing, 2,417yds rushing
1975 - 2,254yds passing, 2,633yds rushing
1976 - 1,666yds passing, 2,971yds rushing
1977 - 2,387yds passing, 2,258yds rushing
1978 - 2,699yds passing, 2,297yds rushing
1979 - 3,655yds passing, 2,603yds rushing
1980 - 3,568yds passing, 1,986yds rushing
1981 - 3,226yds passing, 2,372yds rushing
1982 - 1,768yds passing, 1,187yds rushing strike shortened season
The game was played differently during Swann's career. Teams ran the ball >60% of plays. 1978 is when the Mel Blount Rule went into effect, and you can see the effect it had on passing yardage. Passing became even more predominant with the later liberalization of the offensive holding rules.
Swann came up big in big moments. He shone brightest when the spotlight was on. He left lasting impressions for those who got to see him make spectacular plays when all eyes were watching.
Posted on 2/10/16 at 2:09 pm to DeathValley85
quote:
Well...do cumulative stats or skillset get you in the HOF?
22nd in Receiving TDs
43rd in Receptions
27th in Receiving Yards
That is going to be an interesting debate. It will come down to whether or not you reward the best players in the NFL or the players with the best careers, because those two aren't always the same group of players. I'm of the opinion that a 3-ish year run as the best player at your position should be enough, regardless of the length of your career.
I don't mean to take away from compilers because there is something to be said for being in the Top 5-10 for an extended period of time, but I prefer to put more value on a guy who was in the Top 3 for 3 or so years instead.
Take Megatron vs. Terrell Owens for instance. Owens should have been a 1st ballot guy, and I'm not arguing careers as TO's is significantly better/longer than CJ's, but in their best 3 year stretch, the numbers look like this:
Megatron (11-13): 5,137 yards, 111.7 YPG, 33 TDs, 302 receptions
Owens (00-02): 4,163 yards, 94.6 YPG, 42 TDs, 290 receptions
You can undoubtedly peg Calvin Johnson as the best WR in the league for 3 straight seasons. As good as Owens was, and as great as his career was, you can't do the same for him. Although TO's career was better, Marvin Harrison's 3 year stretch from 2000-2002 edges out TO's IMO - 4,659 yards, 97.1 ypg, 40 TDs and 354 receptions.
I'm not going to put a guy in the HOF for one great season, but 3 seasons of being undoubtedly the best player at your position should be enough.
People always want to say that players should be compared to their peers, so let's do it. CJ's got 3 years as the best player at his position, which is more than most of the guys already in the HOF can say.
Posted on 2/10/16 at 2:16 pm to Poodlebrain
quote:
Swann came up big in big moments. He shone brightest when the spotlight was on. He left lasting impressions for those who got to see him make spectacular plays when all eyes were watching.
So did David Tyree, but he isn't in the HOF either.
I understand your sentiment, but Swann is a perfect example of that being overblown. Some kind of way Swann's big moments have got him in but a guy like Roger Craig is never getting in. It is a shame really.
Posted on 2/10/16 at 2:51 pm to Poodlebrain
quote:
Let's take a look at the Steelers offense when Swann played for them.
1974 - 1,958yds passing, 2,417yds rushing
1975 - 2,254yds passing, 2,633yds rushing
1976 - 1,666yds passing, 2,971yds rushing
1977 - 2,387yds passing, 2,258yds rushing
1978 - 2,699yds passing, 2,297yds rushing
1979 - 3,655yds passing, 2,603yds rushing
1980 - 3,568yds passing, 1,986yds rushing
1981 - 3,226yds passing, 2,372yds rushing
Great post. You can see the huge jump in passing yards after 1978 rule changes & this is 14 games. Look at 74 & 76 .
Although it wasn't impossible since Namath threw for 4007 yards ( 14 games) in 1967 & Johnny Unitas ( greatness personified) consistently threw for roughly 3000-3500 yds.
It was just " Hard" to do,but not impossible.
The League took the easy way out to improve passing/ protect QBs/ score points easier .
Posted on 2/10/16 at 2:57 pm to Bench McElroy
quote:
Lynn Swann: Calvin Johnson has not done enough to be considered a HOFer by Bench McElroyquote: Former Steelers receiver Lynn Swann retired at age 30 with 336 catches for 5,462 yads and 51 touchdowns. But Swann says that Calvin Johnson, who’s expected to retire at the age of 30 with 731 catches for 11,619 yards and 83 touchdowns, shouldn’t join him in the Hall of Fame. “I would think that it would be difficult for Calvin Johnson at this point to be considered a Hall of Famer,” Swann told the Detroit News. “Calvin Johnson has an extreme amount of talent and ability, but when you start to look at his team, the success of his team and did he lift that team; he made them a little bit better, but at the end of the day, I’m not quite sure.”
Is Swann filing with the NFL for more C.T.E. money?
Posted on 2/10/16 at 4:18 pm to TroyTider
quote:
Is Swann filing with the NFL for more C.T.E. money?
STFU, Swann. How many guys are in the HoF who weren't even the best at their position on their own team?
And I'm old enough to have seen him play.
Sure, he was graceful, but he couldn't carry John Stallworth's jock, and Megatron has chunks of Lynn Swann in his stool.
Posted on 2/10/16 at 4:26 pm to Poodlebrain
quote:
Swann came up big in big moments. He shone brightest when the spotlight was on. He left lasting impressions for those who got to see him make spectacular plays when all eyes were watching.
Cliff Branch playoffs:
18 starts
73 - recs
1289- yds
18- ypc
58- ypg
5 - tds
Swann
13 starts:
48 - recs
907-yds
19- ypc
57- ypg
9- tds
Outside of Tds Branch has nothing to be ashamed of
Plus Branch's absolute peak years were in the mid 70's without a running game/ feature back like Harris to take the pressure off the passing game. By the 80's he was still solid ,but.........
A defense not quite as great, but the Raiders had great talent.
I don't blame Branch for not reaching more Super Bowls in the 70's
Posted on 2/10/16 at 4:37 pm to sugar71
quote:
Plus Branch's absolute peak years were in the mid 70's without a running game/ feature back like Harris
OK, slight disagreement. Raiders didn't have one feature back, but had a strong RB-by-committee. In 1975, just in one case, they passed for 2391 yards and ran for 2573.
Posted on 2/10/16 at 4:42 pm to FightinTigersDammit
quote:
OK, slight disagreement. Raiders didn't have one feature back, but had a strong RB-by-committee. In 1975, just in one case, they passed for 2391 yards and ran for 2573.
Point well taken.
Not quite the dominate D of the Steelers , but the Raiders were talented overall.
This post was edited on 2/10/16 at 4:46 pm
Posted on 2/10/16 at 4:44 pm to Bench McElroy
Holy shite Swann is a fricking idiot 
Posted on 2/10/16 at 4:50 pm to gamatt53
quote:
Andre Johnson, Steve Smith Sr, and Larry Fitzgerald have something to say about that
Fitz may have something to say about that. The other two, NO.
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