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re: Let's do a vote. Death Penalty for Penn State?
Posted on 7/17/12 at 7:27 pm to Zamoro10
Posted on 7/17/12 at 7:27 pm to Zamoro10
You posted good info- most of which I knew in general but not in full. I'm still not against the death penalty for them but I'd rather hear reasons/data than someone arguing its not fair to the players.
0
Posted on 7/17/12 at 7:28 pm to vl100butch
quote:
This is the third time over the last few days I'
ve posted this, from the NCAA bylaws....
Look at 2.1.2
2.1 THE PRINCIPLE OF INSTITUTIONAL CONTROL AND
RESPONSIBILITY [*]
2.1.1 Responsibility for Control. [*] It is the responsibility of each member institution to control its intercollegiate
athletics program in compliance with the rules and regulations of the Association. The institution’s
president or chancellor is responsible for the administration of all aspects of the athletics program, including approval
of the budget and audit of all expenditures.
(Revised: 3/8/06)
2.1.2 Scope of Responsibility. [*] The institution’s responsibility for the conduct of its intercollegiate athletics program includes responsibility for the actions of its staff members and for the actions of any other individual or organization engaged in activities promoting the athletics interests of the institution.
And this will be multiple times of me posting this to add to it...
quote:
Title:19.01.2 - Exemplary Conduct.
Individuals employed by or associated with member institutions for the administration, the conduct or the coaching of intercollegiate athletics are, in the final analysis, teachers of young people. Their responsibility is an affirmative one, and they must do more than avoid improper conduct or questionable acts. Their own moral values must be so certain and positive that those younger and more pliable will be influenced by a fine example. Much more is expected of them than of the less critically placed citizen.
Posted on 7/17/12 at 7:30 pm to LNCHBOX
amen.....but there are some who will never get it!!!!!
Posted on 7/17/12 at 7:40 pm to vl100butch
quote:
amen.....but there are some who will never get it!!!!!
Because that's not the standard for the Death penalty...that's just quoting bylaws/rules...of which the NCAA book is massive.
No one is saying they shouldn't or can't receive penalties in some form but not one of you with your continuous postings has posted anything supporting the Death Penalty in Penn State's case as the NCAA applies it.
Posted on 7/17/12 at 7:40 pm to Zamoro10
thats really good info Zamaro, thx.
Yes by those standards its a tough decision to measure the Penn St situation.
Yes by those standards its a tough decision to measure the Penn St situation.
Posted on 7/17/12 at 7:41 pm to LNCHBOX
You keep posting by laws. We get it. But it doesn't say that those infractions automatically call for the death penalty. Nowhere. No one is disputing that PSU is guilty. But show me where it says they are guilty of infractions that call for the DP.
This post was edited on 7/17/12 at 7:43 pm
Posted on 7/17/12 at 8:08 pm to fastedLSU
I firmly believe that the SMU type death penalty would have the same effect on the team as it did on SMU. I firmly believe that if PSU was fighting this or disregarded suggestions, or was uncooperative in any way, the NCAA would be justified in handing down the DP. However, as it's been stated several times before, those disgusting individuals involved have no attachment to the university anymore, and PSU has been moving forward with developing a plan to prevent this from happening again. What that plan is or if it's enough remains to be seen.
With that said, I know how painful it would be, but forfeiting a season would be enough (in my opinion) to show that the school is willing to close this nasty chapter of it's history and move forward . The statue needs to go as well, simply because it's a symbolic fighting point on both sides. In my opinion, this should enough to show that punishment was handed down and accepted, and that PSU accepts how unprecedented this type of case was and how serious it is in making amends.
This is not an SMU type DP, nor should it be.
With that said, I know how painful it would be, but forfeiting a season would be enough (in my opinion) to show that the school is willing to close this nasty chapter of it's history and move forward . The statue needs to go as well, simply because it's a symbolic fighting point on both sides. In my opinion, this should enough to show that punishment was handed down and accepted, and that PSU accepts how unprecedented this type of case was and how serious it is in making amends.
This is not an SMU type DP, nor should it be.
Posted on 7/17/12 at 8:25 pm to Mr. Tom Morrow
quote:
This is not an SMU type DP, nor should it be.
on this we agree, except i think it's a lot worse...
no kids got butt-fricked at SMU...
Posted on 7/17/12 at 8:25 pm to Zamoro10
quote:
No one is saying they shouldn't or can't receive penalties in some form but not one of you with your continuous postings has posted anything supporting the Death Penalty in Penn State's case as the NCAA applies it.
I'd say there probably is no established precedent for the death penalty to be applied in a situation such as this. This is a great opportunity to set it, because if this doesn't warrant it, nothing should.
Posted on 7/17/12 at 8:26 pm to fastedLSU
quote:
But it doesn't say that those infractions automatically call for the death penalty
Kids got butt fricked by a coach at an NCAA institution. Explain to me why it shouldn't.
Posted on 7/17/12 at 8:27 pm to Mr. Tom Morrow
quote:
With that said, I know how painful it would be, but forfeiting a season would be enough (in my opinion) to show that the school is willing to close this nasty chapter of it's history and move forward . The statue needs to go as well, simply because it's a symbolic fighting point on both sides. In my opinion, this should enough to show that punishment was handed down and accepted, and that PSU accepts how unprecedented this type of case was and how serious it is in making amends.
If the PSU officials did this on their own, I'd certainly be satisfied.
Posted on 7/17/12 at 8:38 pm to LNCHBOX
quote:
Kids got butt fricked by a coach at an NCAA institution. Explain to me why it shouldn't.
This is a horrible argument. It's not even an argument; it's an appeal to emotion.
The NCAA wouldn't be punishing the buttfricking. The school didn't buttfrick anybody. The NCAA would be punishing the lack of oversight to prevent buttfrickings. As such, the NCAA would be looking into the alleged actions of the university over a former coach. Sandusky quit after the initial 1998 allegations came to light.
The only person who was affiliated directly with the athletic department who is said to have known about Sandusky and done nothing to stop is Joe Paterno. Joe Paterno is presently not alive.
So basically you are asking the NCAA to give Penn State University the death penalty because of the actions of a deceased former coach and two former university officials who for 14 years failed to bring to light the actions of a former assistant coach. Am I understanding this correctly?
Posted on 7/17/12 at 8:41 pm to bobbyray21
quote:
The only person who was affiliated directly with the athletic department who is said to have known about Sandusky and done nothing to stop is Joe Paterno. Joe Paterno is presently not alive.
So basically you are asking the NCAA to give Penn State University the death penalty because of the actions of a deceased former coach and two former university officials who for 14 years failed to bring to light the actions of a former assistant coach. Am I understanding this correctly?
yep....because the university lost control and paterno was calling the shots...
Posted on 7/17/12 at 8:42 pm to bobbyray21
quote:
The NCAA wouldn't be punishing the buttfricking. The school didn't buttfrick anybody. The NCAA would be punishing the lack of oversight to prevent buttfrickings.
I've been saying that the whole time. That's why the NCAA needs to be involved.
quote:
As such, the NCAA would be looking into the alleged actions of the university over a former coach.
Alleged huh?
quote:
The only person who was affiliated directly with the athletic department who is said to have known about Sandusky and done nothing to stop is Joe Paterno. Joe Paterno is presently not alive.
Are the AD and President of the University, as well as McQueary, not involved with the athletic department?
quote:
So basically you are asking the NCAA to give Penn State University the death penalty because of the actions of a deceased former coach and two former university officials who for 14 years failed to bring to light the actions of a former assistant coach. Am I understanding this correctly?
Yes, you are. And the resident Penn State fan just a few posts up thinks that they should basically self impose it for a year, so it must not be that crazy.
Posted on 7/17/12 at 8:44 pm to LNCHBOX
quote:
Alleged huh?
Not sure why I did that. Let's just go with actions.
Posted on 7/17/12 at 8:45 pm to VerlanderBEAST
quote:
No giving the Death Penalty is cowardly and lazy
Its worse than that. Its pointless. Its letting moral outrage get the better of us. Its punishing innocent people because for some stupid reason, we can't be satisfied to punish the guilty.
Posted on 7/17/12 at 8:46 pm to LNCHBOX
quote:
Are the AD and President of the University, as well as McQueary, not involved with the athletic department?
I forgot about McQueary, and I should have included the AD.
I intentionally excluded the President because he was overseeing, which is different than being directly affiliated. And I mention him in the next sentence.
Posted on 7/17/12 at 8:47 pm to dawgfan24348
No, there was no competitive advantage. It was real world crime it should be handled by the legal system exclusively .
Posted on 7/17/12 at 8:48 pm to LNCHBOX
quote:
Kids got butt fricked by a coach at an NCAA institution. Explain to me why it shouldn't.
No...you explain to us why it should. You've been given the criteria...and if you don't want to use the criteria as you assert PSU is unique (despite the NCAA saying..."this is our criteria") - you can use the intent/severity of the criteria as applied in previous cases.
Where does it apply? And maybe, just maybe...because you're finding it very difficult to apply even the intent of the death penalty to Penn State's case...it might just dawn on you that this isn't an NCAA issue after all.
Setting a new precedent is one of the worst ideas you've floated...by expanding the already monstrous NCAA to unfettered and amorphous powers.
Posted on 7/17/12 at 8:48 pm to H-Town Tiger
quote:
No giving the Death Penalty is cowardly and lazy
Its worse than that. Its pointless. Its letting moral outrage get the better of us. Its punishing innocent people because for some stupid reason, we can't be satisfied to punish the guilty.
there is a great point to this....power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely....
i'm convinced this is just the tip of the iceberg and more will come out...
the culture and insularity at penn state needs to be broken and changed...the death penalty and cleaning house is the only way to do it....
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