re: JJ Watt mic'd up against the Titans - UPDATE: intriguing steroid debate

Dude juices and wouldn't be elite without it, bottom line.

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Dude juices and wouldn't be elite without it, bottom line.

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Just when the flame was petering out...

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JJ watt is a good athlete who I think has used PEDs to become an elite athlete.

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This has been the central issue the entire time. Juice doesn't take a guy from "good" to "greatest of our generation." If that were the case, every D line would have a Watt on it.

Currently, no. In the past, probably. I also think that 90% of all NFL D-linemen at some point in their athletic career juiced up.

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Define playmaker? Like catch touchdowns? He could do that without roids,

Could he hit the QB 2x's as much as the next guy, or ne'er get tired without help? Prob not

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Batted passes, for one?

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He initially said that you're either born a freak or you use juice to get there. That implies that Watt isn't a special talent. If he isn't a special talent and it was juice that took him to the top, why aren't there a shitload of other people just like Watt?

I don't think Lester ever really addressed that. Unless I missed it.

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That's the same thing I said when I read that. He never gave a clear answer which is why this thread has gone on for so long. He keeps modifying his answers when holes are poked in his logic.

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I haven't changed anything. It's called the evolution of a discussion. You've continued to put words in my mouth and you clearly have the lowest reading comprehension ability in this thread

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No, because apparently I'm not the only one who doesn't know what the frick you are trying to say. First you say he was not born a freak but he used PEDs to become a freak... then you're over here trying to explain away his combine numbers.

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My point about him about not being born a freak stems from his production in college. Had he been the same guy surely he would have been much more productive. So yea, I think his "edge" came later and artificially

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He had the most impressive numbers at the combine. So clearly he had the physical ability over others he was playing against.

And he was an All-American and won the Lott Trophy... so clearly he produced in college.

You're acting like he was just some random nobody in college who barely made it in the NFL and then took steroids and then turned into the Hulk and started destroying worlds.

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He's 6'7", Id expect hin to bat passes

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He also has a Randy Livingston/Tyrann Mathieu instinct for the game that steriods wouldn't give him, though like you I wonder why it wasn't as apparent at Wisconsin.

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just to be clear, do you think he's clean?

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I don't know if he's clean. All I'm saying is that there is much more to his success than simply explaining it away by saying "he's juiced up".

Your logic is that he wasn't good in college, then took steroids and became the best player in the NFL.

My logic is that there are many players throughout the years who were clean in college and were better players and just as good if not better athletically in college, and then juiced up in the NFL and still never became as good as JJ Watt is.

So even if he is on something, that doesn't explain away why he is so much better than many others who also are on something.

He's probably competing against guys who are on something.. and they can't stop him.