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re: Is Erik Spoelstra a top 5 coach?
Posted on 5/14/16 at 1:11 am to RTR America
Posted on 5/14/16 at 1:11 am to RTR America
Is there even a chance of Bosh making it back during the playoffs?
1
Posted on 5/14/16 at 1:11 am to AllBamaDoesIsWin
No they ruled him out earlier this week. I'm just hoping he is able to play basketball again at this point.
Posted on 5/14/16 at 1:19 am to buckeye_vol
quote:
But it's a dividing line based on pure speculation without any objective facts to back it up. Say you want about the talent of Miami with the big three, but Spo's adjustment of the offense was a big reason they were so successful AND was ahead of the trend that teams like the Warriors and Cavs have emulated.
What? Miami is not a pace and space team like the Warriors. they are like the Cavs and that is because Lebron was on the Heat and they played Lebron ball.
Everything is speculation and logical exercises. That is the only way you can ever rate coaches. What i see in Stevens is a guy that has now twice taken rosters of middling talent to the playoffs. This season actually matching the far better roster of the Heat in wins. Made it a series with Atlanta despite basically only playing 5 guys.
What I see with Stotts is a guy that has pretty much gotten the best out of every player he gets. He gets Lopez who is a pariah in New Orleans to many fans and he leaves Portland as one of the most coveted FA's. He loses LMA and then develops McCollum into the most improved player of the year. Lilllard into an all star. Crabb and Plumlee into good players. Scales up Aminu's usage from Dallas and actually raises his efficiency.
I see two coaches that undeniably develop talent, maximize players, and optimize systems to fit lesser talent in a way to make a much greater whole unit. In the big leagues of the playoffs they step up their games consistently. Showing the perfect triggers of motivation, X's and O's and series adjustments that you see in elite coaches. Leading to an overachieving of expectations regularly. Spoelstra has shown that at times but not to the extent I have seen it from either of them.
This post was edited on 5/14/16 at 1:21 am
Posted on 5/14/16 at 1:22 am to RTR America
quote:
Heat in a deciding game to make it to the Eastern Conference Finals with 2 rookies, an undrafted 2nd year player, no Whiteside, Bosh. Salute
Playing a pathetic Raptors team that the Heat can't seem to close out despite Derozan and Lowry playing god awful for most of the series and JV out.
But keep living in this fantasy that Spoelstra is some savant because of this series despite struggling to keep up with a Raptors squad that probably could of made the Rockets feel hope again in a 7 game series and has had until recently the teams prized FA acquisition publicly questioning the way he has been used since arriving.
This post was edited on 5/14/16 at 1:36 am
Posted on 5/14/16 at 1:39 am to NOLA Bronco
quote:Huh? That was exactly what they were with LeBron as the four and Bosh outside. GSW had ramped it up, but this was written about extensively.
Miami is not a pace and space team like the Warriors. they are like the Cavs and that is because Lebron was on the Heat and they played Lebron ball.
quote:No it's not.
Everything is speculation and logical exercises
quote:In what world was Robin Lopez one of the most coveted free agents? Besides he had comparable season in NO and Portland. He averaged 11.3 PPG his last season In NO and 11.1 and 9.6 in Portland. He had his highest PER in NO.
He gets Lopez who is a pariah in New Orleans to many fans and he leaves Portland as one of the most coveted FA's
I feel like you and I are in different realities at this point.
This post was edited on 5/14/16 at 1:40 am
Posted on 5/14/16 at 1:41 am to NOLA Bronco
quote:Yep you're either trolling or in an alternate reality.
despite struggling to keep up with a Raptors squad that probably could of made the Rockets feel hope again in a 7 game series.
This post was edited on 5/14/16 at 1:43 am
Posted on 5/14/16 at 2:06 am to buckeye_vol
quote:
Huh? That was exactly what they were with LeBron as the four and Bosh outside. GSW had ramped it up, but this was written about extensively
Go look up the Heats pace with Lebron and get back to me. They got on the break but more often then not they were a slower paced, half court, old school offensive team. But that was Lebron's style til recently after wanting to chase the Warriors and commit to faster pace.
quote:
No it's not.
Feel free to prove me wrong then. I would love you to explain how you can effectively determine a comprehensive coach ranking system without resorting to some form of logical exercises or speculative thinking at one part of the process.
quote:
In what world was Robin Lopez one of the most coveted free agents? Besides he had comparable season in NO and Portland. He averaged 11.3 PPG his last season In NO and 11.1 and 9.6 in Portland. He had his highest PER in NO.
I feel like you and I are in different realities at this point.
He was on the scrap heap in New Orleans and left Portland to the tune of 54 million dollars. I may be overstating his ranking in the FA class but the end result speaks for itself. In New Orleans he had a net rating of -4.7. The following year in Portland? +5.8. Stotts utilized him optimally and with it helped anchor a defense that jumped from 26th to 16th and then 10th. Had Lopez operating as the 3rd best rim protecting center in the league in the year after he left New Orleans.
This post was edited on 5/14/16 at 2:17 am
Posted on 5/14/16 at 2:08 am to buckeye_vol
quote:
Yep you're either trolling or in an alternate reality.
The reality where people know how to watch basketball.
Posted on 5/14/16 at 2:17 am to NOLA Bronco
quote:We were discussing their spacing, and "small ball" line-up, which they started.
Go look up the Heats pace with Lebron and get back to me. the got on on the break but more often
quote:Coach A would not do as well with the team as Coach B is pure speculation.
Feel free to prove me wrong then. I would love you to explain how you can effectively determine superior coaches without resorting to logical exercises or speculative thinking.
Accomplishments, records, etc. are objective facts so the comparisons, while speculative, are still based on facts.
You started from a foundation of speculation.
quote:And he had the same exact VORP when he left NO as when he left Portland. I mean he was probably better in Portland, but you're making the difference seem more dramatic to fit your narrative.
Stotts utilized him optimally and with it helped anchor a defense that jumped from 26th to 16th and then 10th. Had Lopez operating as the 3rd best rim protecting center in the league the year after he left New Orleans.
Posted on 5/14/16 at 2:24 am to NOLA Bronco
quote:There is no maybe about it. LINKNot only did many players sign far more lucrative contracts, including his own twin, Kosta Koufos signed a 33 million dollar contract and he's never averaged more than 8 points or 7 rebounds per game as a 7 footer.
I may be overstating his ranking in the FA class but the end result speaks for itself.
Posted on 5/14/16 at 2:52 am to buckeye_vol
quote:
We were discussing their spacing, and "small ball" line-up, which they started.
LOL. Don Nelson ran small ball in the 70's with Milwaukee and later on credited Red Auerbach as the accidental originator. Doug Moe used it in the 80s. The Pistons played smaller to gain a defensive advantage over bigger, slower front courts. Spoelstra didn't invent small ball. George Karl was bragging in 2009 and 2010 about the effectiveness of their small lineup to disrupt bigger teams. Karl, who, a decade and a half prior got fricked up in the finals by a Bulls lineup that was functionally small ball with Harper, Mj, Pip, Rodman and 200lb soaking wet young Kukoc.
quote:
Coach A would not do as well with the team as Coach B is pure speculation.
Accomplishments, records, etc. are objective facts so the comparisons, while speculative, are still based on facts.
You started from a foundation of speculation.
Objective facts will of course be used in making any case for who is better then who else but ultimately we can't scientifically create double blind studies to test who is the best coaches and so speculation and logical exercises will be a part of any categorization.
quote:
And he had the same exact VORP when he left NO as when he left Portland. I mean he was probably better in Portland, but you're making the difference seem more dramatic to fit your narrative.
Certainly the fact the Blazers were a better cast and healthier is a key lurking variable but Lopez isnt the only example we have at our disposal speaking to Stotts maximizing players he is given and developing talent.
In all of our discussion though I notice you have yet to make the case for Soelstra, just tried to make the case against Stotts and Stevens and assume that by default Spoelstra will rise to the top. Thats not how it works.
This post was edited on 5/14/16 at 3:20 am
Posted on 5/14/16 at 3:34 am to Cosmo
quote:the NBA insiders and coaches all suck this guy off whenever he is brought up. He seems to be very well regarded.
Clearly underrated.
Posted on 5/14/16 at 4:46 am to SwaggerCopter
You are always showing your ignorance Swagger. But maybe you're just dumb.
Posted on 5/14/16 at 5:24 am to Cosmo
quote:I guess I'm the only one that caught this
Clearly underrated. Pretty incredible what hes done with best player injured
Troll on my friend, Troll on
Posted on 5/14/16 at 7:51 am to RTR America
quote:He's been a coach for 1-2 years...and he's now thought of being the league's 2nd best coach. YEs he won the title but usually people will wait until there's roster turnover, different coaching situation, etc to make such a definitive statement.
Seriously?
quote:Not in this thread but for new coaching hires, people mention him as a good option.
I don't think I have even seen anyone mention him
Posted on 5/14/16 at 8:40 am to hendersonshands
Bud is great so I'm not worried. Stevens might be better, time will tell. I like Stevens and like what he's done so far.
I'm mad that people consistently suck Vogel and Thibs cocks and those guys don't do shite and have had plenty of time.
I'm mad that people consistently suck Vogel and Thibs cocks and those guys don't do shite and have had plenty of time.
This post was edited on 5/14/16 at 8:41 am
Posted on 5/14/16 at 9:19 am to rockchlkjayhku11
quote:
I'm mad that people consistently suck Vogel and Thibs cocks and those guys don't do shite and have had plenty of time.
I don't think Vogel is that great. I would be disappointed if he coached the team I liked.
Thibs though.. In his first 2 seasons as head coach his team had the best regular season record and went deep in the playoffs 1st year and D Rose got injured the next. Then his last 2-3 years he dealt with a shite ton of injuries and still was competitive making it to the playoffs every year and the 2nd round 2 of those years. He's a good coach.
I mean shite. Thibs could bring a team of scrubs and backups to be a 4th\5th round playoff team who would at least make it to the 2nd round.
Bulls replace him and are completely healthy this year... Don't even make the playoffs.
Posted on 5/14/16 at 9:20 am to rockchlkjayhku11
Both guys made the Conference Finals at least once. That ain't good enough?
Posted on 5/14/16 at 12:18 pm to Cosmo
I think he is.
I respect the frick out of him for rising from the ranks of a video guy to NBA champion.
I respect the frick out of him for rising from the ranks of a video guy to NBA champion.
Posted on 5/14/16 at 12:23 pm to rockchlkjayhku11
quote:
I'm mad that people consistently suck Vogel and Thibs cocks and those guys don't do shite and have had plenty of time.
It is difficult to judge coaches when they've got slightly above average talent. I mean is Thibs a bad coach because Rose can't stay healthy?
Does Vogel suck because George was out forever? That Pacers team wasn't all that great, but they took Miami to the wire.
I really don't know how you can say one way or the other in that middle-ground talent area. Someone like Brad Stevens is obviously great, because that team is garbage talent-wise, but do we know whether Pop is worth a shite?
It sounds crazy since he's been so successful, but his teams are always very good.
People think Kerr is great and Walton had a better record than he did this year. How do you really judge him?
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