re: How Good Was Barry Bonds?

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He’s the best player to ever play the game. Before or after he cheated

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This is how I look at it.

He was one of the best players in the game before he started PEDs.

He started PEDs in an era where probably 95% or more players weee using and he was still one of the best.

So either way, he was an all time great. Easily on the list of the 5-10 best ever.

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Canseco and the As were juicing in the mid 80s but nobody from that era is ever lumped in with the steroid group. It’s all bullshite

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I’ve told this story before, but it’s why I loathe Bud Selig and all the self-righteous, sanctimonious, hypocritical beyond belief baseball writers who covered the sport from those 80s teams to the “I’m shocked there’s steroid use going on in this establishment” years of the early aughts.

I was 10 years old in 1988. Loved all sports—baseball was by far my favorite—but I kept up with all of them. And there were probably whispers of steroids in sports before this, but Ben Johnson (alluded to earlier) beating Carl Lewis in the 100 in the ‘88 Olympic Games in Seoul was a really big deal. Brought steroids out to the mainstream like nothing that had come before. So, as an interested 10-year-old, I did a 5th grade science or social studies project on steroids in sports. One of those 3-sided, folding boards projects. I read some books, some Encyclopedia Britanica articles for a week or so, and it took my 10-year-old self about 15 minutes to figure out 1 + 1 = 2, and those ‘87/‘88 A’s teams were juiced out of their minds. Not just Canseco and McGwire, but Ricky Henderson, Dave Stewart, Dave Henderson, Carney Langford, Mike Gallego, Bob Welch, Terry Steinbach, hell, even fricking Tony Larussa was busting out of his pants.

I didn’t care—I love the bombs—but 10-year-old me in 1988 knew 100% at least the A’s, and probably a lot of other guys or teams we’re probably doing the same thing. So, I just assumed that was part of the game, through the 90s in MLB and college.(The 1997 LSU baseball team may be my favorite of all time, but if you were too stupid to know they were juicing out of their minds, that’s on YOU). Same thing with MLB. I forget if there was an impetus besides McGwires’s red herring Andro, but frick anybody who’d been watching baseball for any amount of time and all of a sudden caught ethical standards in 2002. frick you all—you all made a shite ton of money turning a blind eye for decades. And if you—Selig and the media—tried to sell your self-righteous being appalled, then you’re either A—and more likely—) completely intellectually dishonest/a fricking liar or B) so Incredibly goddamn stupid you are too incompetent to hold the position you have.

The truth is EVERYBODY knew, and EVERYBODY benefited financially. Until they didn’t. By the way, YOU—the old, self-righteous fan in this thread—would have walked up to bat with syringes sticking out of both arse cheeks if the money at that time was available to you. Just like your heroes Hank Aaron, Willie Mays, Ted Williams, Babe Ruth, whoever. The rewards so far outweigh the risks, you’d be stupid not to. And you young, naive children, guess what? Jeff Bagwell? Juiced. Craig Biggio? Juiced? Pudge Rodriguez? Super juiced? And yes, even the holy saints Derek Jeter and Ken Griffey, Jr. themselves—juiced. Not all juice is the same and and not everybody worked as hard on it. Bit this idea that they’re pure as the driven snow and would never? bullshite. Money was too much not to, and at the very least, they wanted to stay on the field and play.


Everybody that could juiced. Everybody that couldn’t, would have. And that’s ok. That doesn’t make them bad people. It makes them people. With families. With wives. With kids, who will assumably have kids who may have kids, etc…And wanting to do whatever you can to take care of generations of descendants can be argued as noble as easily as not. So, everybody needs to get right the frick over themselves.

GOAT

While the drug naysayers have taken it to an extreme, the counter-reaction has been this cult of Barry Bonds.

So we get...drug teetotaler never induct him...then revisionists, he was the best player EVA! without drugs.

He wasn't ever considered nor thought of as the best ever before his head swelled.

He wasn't even universally considered even the best player in the game...this is revisionist Pirate history. Nobody talked about him in the 90's like they were in total awe. They talked about Griffey a lot. Rickey, Frank Thomas.

It's only his fat head S.F. years where we get this...is he the best player ever?

And if you think 95% of players were using, then more power to you...and you'll never be swayed by pure fandom.

Jim Brown, Earl Campbell, Eric Dickerson, Sanders and OJ Simpson, Payton, Riggins. In that order, Bo Jackson Incomplete.

In his prime the baseball was the size of a beach ball to bonds.

He was very good before he got on the roids. He was historically great after he got on the stuff in 1999.

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He was a HOF'er before the roids.

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I think he could have gotten in had he retired after the 1993 season.

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Druggie Bonds isnt even good enough to be in the hall of fame

So not even top 236 in major league basebal history

A druggie footnote

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some of yall are so fricking naive and dumb as frick. its really laughable.

if you want to go that route....then all those guys from the 50's, 60's yea they are gone too for the "greenies" i.e. fricking speed


Yall really are fricking naive if you dont think 95% of college level and above guys were juicing. Go look at the 80s, even the later 70s. Now once the 90s started, it was game on, no way they were going to let the As continue to dominate.


as far as the question.....he is the best hitter of all time all seasons included. If you want to take away the "steroid" years(which is dumb because 99% of pitchers were using, more then even field players) then he is still a hall of famer and one of the best ever.