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re: Greatest 3rd baseman of all-time
Posted on 6/18/12 at 1:07 pm to OBUDan
Posted on 6/18/12 at 1:07 pm to OBUDan
quote:
It'd be wrong to completely leave him off the list
Steroids aside, A-Rod is a great player. However, the fact that he has split his career between two positions probably disqualifies him from being considered the greatest at either.
0
Posted on 6/18/12 at 1:07 pm to tigerdup07
quote:
ken camanetti
If this is serious, I'd say you need to list Scott Rolen and Graig Nettles well ahead of Caminiti (who was on drugs most of his career).
Posted on 6/18/12 at 1:08 pm to TigerintheNO
Schmidt
Brett
Robinson
Brett
Robinson
Posted on 6/18/12 at 1:09 pm to TigerintheNO
So in your opinion, Mathews is not even in the running?
His offensive numbers are pretty comparable to Schmidt. And as far as defensively, Schmidt played in 31 more games and had 20 more errors at 3b.
His offensive numbers are pretty comparable to Schmidt. And as far as defensively, Schmidt played in 31 more games and had 20 more errors at 3b.
Posted on 6/18/12 at 1:09 pm to tigerdup07
Graig Nettles was a good on defense, but struggled at the plate at times
Posted on 6/18/12 at 1:10 pm to COACH ROD
quote:
Graig Nettles was a good on defense, but struggled at the plate at times
Yes, I completely agree, but he was overall a better player than Caminiti still.
Posted on 6/18/12 at 1:12 pm to Tiger in NY
Rolen is really interesting, because he's probably the 2nd best defensive 3b ever, but he doesn't have exceptional hitting numbers (not bad at all, just not exceptional). Injuries played into his career heavily too, of course.
Posted on 6/18/12 at 1:16 pm to OBUDan
Agreed. Rolen is still a career .281 hitter, which is pretty darn good, has 300+ HRs, 1200+ RBI. All while being an 8 time GG winner. He is somewhere around the Top 10, IMO.
Posted on 6/18/12 at 1:16 pm to Tiger in NY
Is that enough to get him into the Hall?
Posted on 6/18/12 at 1:19 pm to Baloo
quote:
if you think Boggs is better than Mathews, you are smoking crack
Was about to say something similar
quote:
Boggs has a high batting average and not much else, and he gets rated as a top five guy? Are we that blinded by batting average
with a .328 BA, shouldn't his OBP be better than .415 or am I nit picking?
Posted on 6/18/12 at 1:20 pm to Tiger in NY
Rolen is a real could’ve been guy. But the question is not who would’ve been the best had everything gone right, but who actually was the best. Hopefully, Rolen can squeeze into the Hall over the BBWAA’s hatred of third basemen.
I consider A-Rod a shortstop because his peak was at SS and he wasn’t moved due to declining ability. It wasn’t like he couldn’t hack it at short anymore.
I consider A-Rod a shortstop because his peak was at SS and he wasn’t moved due to declining ability. It wasn’t like he couldn’t hack it at short anymore.
Posted on 6/18/12 at 1:20 pm to OBUDan
Let's not forget the old timers.
Pie Traynor was the third baseman for the Major League Centennial Team (the team of all-time greats announced in 1969). 2,416 career hits. 7 seasons with 100+ RBI, second to Schmidt among third basemen. Only 278 career K's. Best defensive third baseman of his era. Not a lot of homers due to Forbes Field's cavernous dimensions, but he hit a lot of doubles and triples.
Pie Traynor was the third baseman for the Major League Centennial Team (the team of all-time greats announced in 1969). 2,416 career hits. 7 seasons with 100+ RBI, second to Schmidt among third basemen. Only 278 career K's. Best defensive third baseman of his era. Not a lot of homers due to Forbes Field's cavernous dimensions, but he hit a lot of doubles and triples.
Posted on 6/18/12 at 1:21 pm to OBUDan
Tough to say. The fact that he has been injured a bunch (and thus kind of overlooked) along with the fact that he played in the steroid era could hurt him. He is one of those guys that seems like he didn't do roids, but will be hurt by voters lumping all the players in this era together. I think he should probably get in, eventually.
Posted on 6/18/12 at 1:21 pm to H-Town Tiger
quote:
with a .328 BA, shouldn't his OBP be better than .415 or am I nit picking?
He has a top 25 BB%. So obviously historically great, but is that "legendary?"
Of course, Schmidtty is top 10.
I think that's a pretty fair point.
Posted on 6/18/12 at 1:21 pm to OBUDan
ARod shouldn't be disqualified for either because of his time at various positions. You can reasonably put him at 3B now in my opinion, or at least you will be able to by the time he is done.
Mathews should definitely be in the top 5, ahead of Boggs for sure.
Robinson's fielding was simply amazing. Granted, I didn't see him live, but the guy seemed to be able to make a name for himself based on defense, which in baseball is rare. Who else does that? Vizquel? Maybe today a guy like Asdrubal Cabrera? However, do we value his outstanding fielding more than the bat of Mathews?
Mathews should definitely be in the top 5, ahead of Boggs for sure.
Robinson's fielding was simply amazing. Granted, I didn't see him live, but the guy seemed to be able to make a name for himself based on defense, which in baseball is rare. Who else does that? Vizquel? Maybe today a guy like Asdrubal Cabrera? However, do we value his outstanding fielding more than the bat of Mathews?
Posted on 6/18/12 at 1:24 pm to Tiger in NY
quote:
I'm having a hard time counting any "known" roiders in these discussions,
did I miss where it was proven he used anything?
Since steroid were brought up, I wish someone could explain 1987 to me. Boogs who had a career high of 8 hit 24 that year. The over all power numbers that year compared to 85-86 and 88 are off the charts. It can't be steroids, unless everyone used for 1 year only and quit.
Posted on 6/18/12 at 1:26 pm to H-Town Tiger
quote:
with a .328 BA, shouldn't his OBP be better than .415 or am I nit picking?
A career OBP of .400+ is pretty f'ing stout. The guys around Boggs are all easy HOFers:
19. Mickey Cochrane+ (13) .4192 L
20. Frank Thomas (19) .4191 R
21. Edgar Martinez (18) .4178 R
22. Stan Musial+ (22) .4167 L
23. Albert Pujols (12, 32) .4163 R
24. Cupid Childs (13) .4157 L
25. Wade Boggs+ (18) .4150 L
26. Jesse Burkett+ (16) .4149 L
27. Mel Ott+ (22) .4140 L
28. Roy Thomas (13) .4135 L
29. Lefty O'Doul (11) .4133 L
30. Hank Greenberg+ (13) .4118 R
Posted on 6/18/12 at 1:29 pm to Tiger in NY
25th all time, that's good enough for me.
Posted on 6/18/12 at 1:30 pm to TigerintheNO
Where is Pete Rose?
Posted on 6/18/12 at 1:31 pm to H-Town Tiger
quote:
I'm having a hard time counting any "known" roiders in these discussions,
did I miss where it was proven he used anything?
There was a reason I put "known" in quotes. To me, he did it. That is my opinion, and not a fact. However, since these threads are about opinions, I am going to leave guys I think did roids off.
quote:
Since steroid were brought up, I wish someone could explain 1987 to me. Boogs who had a career high of 8 hit 24 that year. The over all power numbers that year compared to 85-86 and 88 are off the charts. It can't be steroids, unless everyone used for 1 year only and quit.
IIRC, he has said in interviews that he changed his swing and approach that year because Red Sox brass wanted more power out of him. Why he didn't keep it up I guess I don't know. He was certainly in the zone that year (batted .363 and had an OBP of .461)
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