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Message
Greatest 3rd baseman of all-time
Posted on 6/18/12 at 12:37 pm
Posted on 6/18/12 at 12:37 pm
I feel this position will spark more debate then 1st or 2nd base. There are only 10 3rd baseman enshired in Cooperstown, with one to be inducted and one still active. On an interesting note a good number of them played their entire career with one team (Traynor, Schmidt, Robinson, Jones, Brett, Santo)
IMO when Eddie Mattews retired as the only 3rd sacker with 500 Hrs, he was the greatest 3rd baseman of all-time. I dont believe he now ranks in the Top5.
Michael Jack Schmidt-Led the league in Hrs 8 times. The 3 time MVP led baseball in HRs during the 1980s. Finished his career with 548 Hrs & 1595 RBIs. He was also the 2nd greatest fielding 3rd baseman winning 10 gold gloves. While his lifetime average was (identical to Robinson) .267 he finished with a .908 OPS & .527 slugging %.
Brooks Robinson-Was the greatest defensive player in baseball history. While other players (Mays, Griffey, Bench, Smith, & Vizquel) have legit claims on that title, the difference between them and the next best player at their position, isn't as great. 16 straight Gold Gloves and the highest fielding % at the hot corner. He wasn't a slouch at the plate. The 18 time all-star would finish with 268 Hrs & 1357 RBIs. Robinson would win the 1964 MVP and the 1970 WS MVP.
George Brett-Would win batting titles in 3 different decades. While no where near Robinson & Schmidt in the field, one could claim he was the most balanced hitter. Brett was the 1st hitter in baseball to reach more than 3,000 hits, 300 home runs, 600 doubles, 100 triples, 1,500 RBI and 200 stolen bases. The 12 time all-star's career RBIs was identical to Schmidt.
Chipper Jones-Easliy one of the top 5 switch hitters of all-time. Drafted as a SS, a postion he would play briefly; he would play around 350 games in the OF, but he has been a 7 time all-star at 3rd baseman. Like Robinson & Brett, he would also win an MVP('99). While still active Jones has 459 Hrs and is closing in on 1600 RBIs . Jones sports a .933 OPS and his team would win the divison for the first decade of his career.
Wade Boggs- From 1982-1996, only once in those 15 years he would fail to hit .300. Not a power hitter, 24 of his 118 Hrs came in the infamous '87 season. Boggs would win 5 batting titles during the 80s. In the field he was closer to Brett and Jones than Schmidt or Robinson, although he would win a pair of gold gloves. Spending a half dozen year in the minors, could have contributed to higher lifetime avg. (.328 BA & .858 OPS) but at the same time limited his lifetime totals (3,010 hits & 578 doubles)
Tomorrow- Shortstop
IMO when Eddie Mattews retired as the only 3rd sacker with 500 Hrs, he was the greatest 3rd baseman of all-time. I dont believe he now ranks in the Top5.
Michael Jack Schmidt-Led the league in Hrs 8 times. The 3 time MVP led baseball in HRs during the 1980s. Finished his career with 548 Hrs & 1595 RBIs. He was also the 2nd greatest fielding 3rd baseman winning 10 gold gloves. While his lifetime average was (identical to Robinson) .267 he finished with a .908 OPS & .527 slugging %.
Brooks Robinson-Was the greatest defensive player in baseball history. While other players (Mays, Griffey, Bench, Smith, & Vizquel) have legit claims on that title, the difference between them and the next best player at their position, isn't as great. 16 straight Gold Gloves and the highest fielding % at the hot corner. He wasn't a slouch at the plate. The 18 time all-star would finish with 268 Hrs & 1357 RBIs. Robinson would win the 1964 MVP and the 1970 WS MVP.
George Brett-Would win batting titles in 3 different decades. While no where near Robinson & Schmidt in the field, one could claim he was the most balanced hitter. Brett was the 1st hitter in baseball to reach more than 3,000 hits, 300 home runs, 600 doubles, 100 triples, 1,500 RBI and 200 stolen bases. The 12 time all-star's career RBIs was identical to Schmidt.
Chipper Jones-Easliy one of the top 5 switch hitters of all-time. Drafted as a SS, a postion he would play briefly; he would play around 350 games in the OF, but he has been a 7 time all-star at 3rd baseman. Like Robinson & Brett, he would also win an MVP('99). While still active Jones has 459 Hrs and is closing in on 1600 RBIs . Jones sports a .933 OPS and his team would win the divison for the first decade of his career.
Wade Boggs- From 1982-1996, only once in those 15 years he would fail to hit .300. Not a power hitter, 24 of his 118 Hrs came in the infamous '87 season. Boggs would win 5 batting titles during the 80s. In the field he was closer to Brett and Jones than Schmidt or Robinson, although he would win a pair of gold gloves. Spending a half dozen year in the minors, could have contributed to higher lifetime avg. (.328 BA & .858 OPS) but at the same time limited his lifetime totals (3,010 hits & 578 doubles)
Tomorrow- Shortstop
21
Posted on 6/18/12 at 12:39 pm to TigerintheNO
I'm partial to Brett as one the first great players I remember watching in the WS...but you can't deny Schmidt.
1. Schmidt
2. Brett
I don't care about highlighting spectacular fielding if you aren't nearly the hitter those two were.
1. Schmidt
2. Brett
I don't care about highlighting spectacular fielding if you aren't nearly the hitter those two were.
Posted on 6/18/12 at 12:39 pm to TigerintheNO
Chipper Jones
Posted on 6/18/12 at 12:41 pm to TigerintheNO
quote:
The 18 time all-star
Good God. What's the record?
Posted on 6/18/12 at 12:43 pm to TigerintheNO
You got all the right ones on there from what I can tell. I have Schmidt at the top as well. I have Brett #2, and Boggs #3 for this reason:
I'm really glad you included Eddie Mathews in the discussion. He had more hits and a higher average than Schmidt, and only hit 35 fewer HRs. Disregarding my sentiment on Boggs above, Mathews is probably right up there in the top 3.
quote:
"I'm not kidding you Steve. Seriously. Wade was the kind of guy who was always the first one at the club house. So he'd get to the clubhouse, and he'd bring a six pack with him. He'd be there drinking a beer when someone showed up, and as we were all packing our stuff up out of our lockers and getting our bags ready for the trip, Wade would sit there and drink that whole six pack. Now, at the time, we were flying out of New Jersey, so it was somewhat of a drive from Yankee stadium to the airport in New Jersey. Wade would drink another couple of beers on the bus to the airport. At the time, we were flying this older airplane, it couldn't make it across the country without refueling, and it wasn't the fastest airplane in the sky. So we would stop in North Dakota or something. Wade would drink about a half rack between New Jersey and North Dakota, and it would take about a half-hour to an hour to refuel once we got there, so he'd have a few more beers while we were grounded in North Dakota. Once we got back up in the air, Wade would drink another 10, 11, 12 beers on the way out to the west coast. The whole flight from coast to coast ususally took us well over 7 hours. We'd touch down at Sea-Tac, hop on the bus headed to the Kingdome, and Wade would have another beer or two on the bus. Then, all of us would get to the Kingdome and unpack our bags and sit around and BS with eachother, and Wade would have a beer in his hand the entire time. He was always one of the last people to leave the club house too. So I'd say that all in all, he drank over 50 beers on the trip, and this wasn't just an isolated incident, he did that almost every time. It should be noted that Boggs said the number of tasty Miller Lites may have been inflated over the years.
quote:
Boggs is rumored to have once drunk 60-70 beers during a cross country flight
I'm really glad you included Eddie Mathews in the discussion. He had more hits and a higher average than Schmidt, and only hit 35 fewer HRs. Disregarding my sentiment on Boggs above, Mathews is probably right up there in the top 3.
This post was edited on 6/18/12 at 12:49 pm
Posted on 6/18/12 at 12:43 pm to TH03
1.Schmdt
2.Boggs
2.Boggs
Posted on 6/18/12 at 12:47 pm to TigerintheNO
quote:
I feel this position will spark more debate then 1st or 2nd base
Shouldn't. Everyone should just come in and say Schmidt and leave without protest.
Posted on 6/18/12 at 12:48 pm to TigerintheNO
Can we just assume I made the Ron Santo not being in the Hall of Fame is ludicrous argument?
I love the Orioles. I love Brooksie. But, man, I think Mike Schmidt is the greatest 3B ever. Also, if you think Boggs is better than Mathews, you are smoking crack. This goes back to the point I made about Eddie Murray – specialists are overrated. Boggs has a high batting average and not much else, and he gets rated as a top five guy? Are we that blinded by batting average? I would take Santo’s well-rounded skill set (and truly superb defense) over Boggs.
Mike Schmidt, though. Total f’n badass.
I love the Orioles. I love Brooksie. But, man, I think Mike Schmidt is the greatest 3B ever. Also, if you think Boggs is better than Mathews, you are smoking crack. This goes back to the point I made about Eddie Murray – specialists are overrated. Boggs has a high batting average and not much else, and he gets rated as a top five guy? Are we that blinded by batting average? I would take Santo’s well-rounded skill set (and truly superb defense) over Boggs.
Mike Schmidt, though. Total f’n badass.
Posted on 6/18/12 at 12:48 pm to CQQ
24. Musial, Aaron, and Mays. But there were two All-Star Games for 3 or 4 years
Posted on 6/18/12 at 12:49 pm to TigerintheNO
Where does ARod fall in the discussion?
He played a ton of SS in his career, but he's transitioned to 3B seamlessly.
Based on pure O, he'd clearly be the best, IMO.
Only 3 3B in baseball history have a WAR over 100: Schmidt, Mathews... and Alex Rodriguez.
Robinson was a solid hitter, but as you said, the best defensive player of his or any generation.
Boggs is interesting because while a superb hitter had almost zero power. He's basically like a healthy Joe Mauer.
I'd probably go:
ARod
Schmidt
Mathews
He played a ton of SS in his career, but he's transitioned to 3B seamlessly.
Based on pure O, he'd clearly be the best, IMO.
Only 3 3B in baseball history have a WAR over 100: Schmidt, Mathews... and Alex Rodriguez.
Robinson was a solid hitter, but as you said, the best defensive player of his or any generation.
Boggs is interesting because while a superb hitter had almost zero power. He's basically like a healthy Joe Mauer.
I'd probably go:
ARod
Schmidt
Mathews
Posted on 6/18/12 at 12:50 pm to Baloo
quote:
Boggs has a high batting average and not much else, and he gets rated as a top five guy?
My opinion of BOggs isn't far off from yours, I'll just add that he did walk a shite ton, which was unappreciated in his era.
Posted on 6/18/12 at 12:50 pm to Zamoro10
quote:
1. Schmidt 2. Brett
This is the only answer with Brooks a close third.
Posted on 6/18/12 at 12:51 pm to OBUDan
quote:
Where does ARod fall in the discussion?
I'm having a hard time counting any "known" roiders in these discussions, but baseball is about being compared to your contemporaries. Based on that, ARod has 3 MVPs (2 of which came as a 3B).
My rankings:
1. Schmidt
2.Brett
3. Eddie Mathews
4.Brooks Robinson
5. Wade Boggs/Chipper Jones/Ron Santo
This post was edited on 6/18/12 at 12:55 pm
Posted on 6/18/12 at 12:52 pm to OBUDan
quote:
Where does ARod fall in the discussion?
IMO he doesn't.IF he played his whole career ther then maybe.
Posted on 6/18/12 at 12:55 pm to dukke v
Well AROD has played about 150 fewer games at 3B than SS now.
It'd be wrong to completely leave him off the list (unless you are just going to ignore ALL steroid users). ETA: I mean leave him off any greatest players list just because he split time at two spots.
If you are going to ignore roiders, the you may as well forget anyone who played in the late 80s-early 2000s, because we have no way of knowing who/how many IMO.
For me, it's not fair to disqualify "known roiders" but give a pass to guys we aren't "sure" about.
It'd be wrong to completely leave him off the list (unless you are just going to ignore ALL steroid users). ETA: I mean leave him off any greatest players list just because he split time at two spots.
If you are going to ignore roiders, the you may as well forget anyone who played in the late 80s-early 2000s, because we have no way of knowing who/how many IMO.
For me, it's not fair to disqualify "known roiders" but give a pass to guys we aren't "sure" about.
This post was edited on 6/18/12 at 12:58 pm
Posted on 6/18/12 at 12:57 pm to TigerintheNO
quote:spot on, imo
Michael Jack Schmidt
Brooks Robinson
George Brett
Posted on 6/18/12 at 12:59 pm to The White Lobster
quote:
24. Musial, Aaron, and Mays. But there were two All-Star Games for 3 or 4 years
And to add, there was a lot more pride in the game back then. Guys WANTED to play because there was a huge rivalry between AL and NL and which was better, so this was a chance to prove why your league was better.
Willie Mays talks about this all the time.
MLB has made strides by trying to renew the importance by placing WS home field advantage on it, but it's still not the same. Guys just don't value it as much and often pass to keep themselves healthy.
This post was edited on 6/18/12 at 1:00 pm
Posted on 6/18/12 at 1:01 pm to OBUDan
You used to have pitchers throwing like 8 innings ion All-Star games. Can you imagine that now?
Posted on 6/18/12 at 1:05 pm to TigerintheNO
ken camanetti
Posted on 6/18/12 at 1:07 pm to Tiger in NY
It really is crazy how different it was.
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