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Started By
Message
re: Evangel wins four titles in six years 5A then is forced to drop to 1A. 2018
Posted on 10/30/24 at 7:44 am to tigah1985
Posted on 10/30/24 at 7:44 am to tigah1985
quote:
players from all over, especially Texas.
The horror that this state might actually have something good enough for people to reverse the migration from Louisiana to Texas. They didn’t need to go out and recruit people, their success did it for them.
quote:
Their “school” was literally a couple portable buildings and trailers.
Well when you don’t get to siphon off taxpayer dollars you have to use what options you have to continue to grow.
It seems like you mad btw.
What year did Evangel beat you?
0
Posted on 10/30/24 at 8:03 am to rmc
Evangel literally has grown men in their 20’s playing against children. There’s no way you can convince me otherwise.
The size and speed advantage was staggering…at least from what I saw in 2001/2002ish when I saw them play a couple of times.
The size and speed advantage was staggering…at least from what I saw in 2001/2002ish when I saw them play a couple of times.
Posted on 10/30/24 at 8:36 am to supatigah
quote:
ECA was allegedly illegally recruiting kids from other states and bringing them in to play football. They were also allegedly illegally recruiting kids from area schools and setting them up to transfer in to play football.
quote:
At the same time the Anti-John Curtis crowd joined in and complained about JCC winning 4A with a 2A enrollment.
You gotta admit, what these schools were doing was totally unfair to all the other schools… basic run of the mill public schools shouldn’t have to compete against other schools that can pull kids from wherever they want, specifically for sports. And it’s the same situation for some of the baseball schools in Louisiana.. It just isn’t fair
I think they could have handled the split differently, but that’s not my area of expertise
Posted on 10/30/24 at 9:58 am to GeorgeTheGreek
quote:
Oh I don’t think that’s true. The big football programs would all want to play up.
So question
Who do you define as the big programs right now that aren’t in 5A but should be (and obviously don’t have 5A enrollment)
John Curtis and Evangel are already in 5A now. Curtis has been for a decade.
Posted on 10/30/24 at 10:05 am to tigah1985
quote:
Their “school” was literally a couple portable buildings and trailers.
If Evangel and John Curtis could recruit with crappy facilities, think what actual schools could do…
Don’t underestimate how they changed education in our state. Open enrollment, magnet programs in the big parishes, etc. wasn’t really a thing in the 90s. Charters especially didn’t really exist until Katrina. Then you started creating ISDs like Zachary and Central and consolidating like Franklin Parish and South Plaquemines.
The logic was, the way they recruit and want football players, other schools should want (and try to attract) more academic students like that.
This post was edited on 10/30/24 at 10:09 am
Posted on 10/30/24 at 10:17 am to chalmetteowl
I haven’t lived in Louisiana for 15 years so I’m not sure. I’m more talking about how this relates to post season more than anything. Get rid of select/non-select split and have a 6A Super.
Posted on 10/30/24 at 10:26 am to rmc
I was there. Ryan played QB and DB. He was damn good at both. Great game.
Posted on 10/30/24 at 10:26 am to GeorgeTheGreek
quote:
Get rid of select/non-select split and have a 6A Super.
But let’s say that bracket is 32 more teams in the state playoffs. How would you convince Teurlings Catholic or Shaw (for example) to play in it and probably lose in the quarterfinals when in their true enrollment class (4A) they’re probably going to the Dome?
Posted on 10/30/24 at 10:59 am to tiger2180
quote:
It wasn’t Tommy Henry’s proposal. He was just the commissioner at the time. People see what they want to see.
Tommy Henry ran the LHSAA for 24 years in an absolute Kingfish style dictatorship
you are correct in that a principal wrote the actual proposal and the principals voted it in. But rest assured if it saw the floor for a vote and passed it was 100% Tommy Henry’s doing
there were a few things going on in different sports and at different levels that created a more unified outrage that eventually created the split
The Brent Rawls transfer and eligibility case and the ongoing battle between Henry and ECA and Henry vs JCC played out in the statewide media
there was ECA vs the NORLA 5A schools and the longstanding NOLA area HS feuds with JCC
Tommy Henry was a North LA guy closely aligned with a lot of the North LA Principals
there was Reserve Christian, Parkview Baptist, Family Christian and Christian Life in basketball amongst others
there were schools popping up all around the state out of nowhere
the 5A and 4A football crowds were making the most noise at the time and the initial proposal to deal with it was the play in class idea. Tommy Henry was vehemently opposed to the split playoffs concept and he was able to get play in class approved at the detriment to the 1A and 2A schools.
Henry retired in 2007 (he was actually pushed out under clouds of allegations of personal use of LHSAA funds which splintered his base) and his consolidated power and coalition broke up into smaller factions.
play in class ultimately didnt work and unfortunately JCC destroyed Winnfield’s Dream Season in the Dome in the 2011 2A Finals and Reserve Christian annihilated Midland HS in the Top 28, the Winnfield Principal and the Midland Principal became really loud voices pushing the split
the split happened in 2013 and here we are
Posted on 10/30/24 at 11:22 am to chalmetteowl
quote:
Don’t underestimate how they changed education in our state. Open enrollment, magnet programs in the big parishes, etc
Nationwide trend that was coming anyway
Posted on 10/30/24 at 11:24 am to JS87
quote:no 20 year old has played in La since before integration
Evangel literally has grown men in their 20’s playing against children. There’s
Posted on 10/30/24 at 12:38 pm to choupiquesushi
quote:
It was pretty balanced if you look at brackets and started sliding in 80s
In 4a in 80s only 1 private won state and 2 runner ups
5 a didn’t have a private title till ECA
I dont think there was a class 5A until 1991. Thats around the time the private schools started to become football factories.
This post was edited on 10/30/24 at 12:41 pm
Posted on 10/30/24 at 1:03 pm to REB BEER
Calvary closed their high school in the late 80s and reopened the high school probably somewhere around 2004 give or take a little. Kept the younger grades open the whole time.
Posted on 10/30/24 at 1:29 pm to supatigah
quote:
ECA was allegedly illegally recruiting kids from other states and bringing them in to play football. They were also allegedly illegally recruiting kids from area schools and setting them up to transfer in to play football.
ECA then had the gall to beat 5A schools in the playoffs with an actual 1A enrollment so a movement began at the 5A level to figure out a way to minimize ECA. North LA 5A schools joined in with BTR and NOLA schools to force the issue.
At the same time the Anti-John Curtis crowd joined in and complained about JCC winning 4A with a 2A enrollment.
So LHSAA Commissioner Tommy Henry came up with the brilliant idea to force play in your enrollment class. Which pushed ECA and JCC down playing true 2A and 1A schools and destroying them in the process.
You say all of this as if everyone else was the problem and not JC and ECA.
Posted on 10/30/24 at 1:55 pm to GhostofLesticleMiles
well that is a take
the JCC vs LHSAA thing goes back to the 80s and was in a lot of ways personal between certain members of the LHSAA hierarchy and JT Curtis
the ECA vs the world thing was one school vs about a dozen 5A schools
if these two schools were cheating, then investigate the allegations and prove it
The LHSAA investigation office was comically understaffed and under budgeted for decades
if you cant prove they are cheating, then play them on the field and beat them
but pushing them down to destroy 1A and 2A schools who had no dog in that fight was wrong and not done with the protection and safety of the actual student athletes in mind
Ironically the laws of unintended consequences and the shortsightedness of pushing them down solidified the argument for splitting the Association. They made a 5A and 4A problem an Association problem.
the JCC vs LHSAA thing goes back to the 80s and was in a lot of ways personal between certain members of the LHSAA hierarchy and JT Curtis
the ECA vs the world thing was one school vs about a dozen 5A schools
if these two schools were cheating, then investigate the allegations and prove it
The LHSAA investigation office was comically understaffed and under budgeted for decades
if you cant prove they are cheating, then play them on the field and beat them
but pushing them down to destroy 1A and 2A schools who had no dog in that fight was wrong and not done with the protection and safety of the actual student athletes in mind
Ironically the laws of unintended consequences and the shortsightedness of pushing them down solidified the argument for splitting the Association. They made a 5A and 4A problem an Association problem.
This post was edited on 10/30/24 at 2:03 pm
Posted on 10/30/24 at 2:11 pm to supatigah
quote:
if these two schools were cheating, then investigate the allegations and prove it
Do you or have you lived in Louisiana? Louisiana's number #1 pastime is corruption. Saying this comes across as being somewhat naïve.
quote:
The LHSAA investigation office was comically understaffed and under budgeted for decades
Back to my first point of corruption. Asking a comically understaffed/budgeted office to prove someone is cheating?
quote:
if you cant prove they are cheating, then play them on the field and beat them
This one made me chuckle a little. The whole purpose of all this is because you couldnt beat them on the field; which goes back to why couldnt you beat them on the field.
This post was edited on 10/30/24 at 2:14 pm
Posted on 10/30/24 at 2:29 pm to supatigah
quote:
but pushing them down to destroy 1A and 2A schools
Evangel WAS 1A and Curtis WAS 2A. The play in class people had a point
This post was edited on 10/30/24 at 2:31 pm
Posted on 10/30/24 at 2:41 pm to REB BEER
quote:
We used to play Calvary in middle school football in 1982. So, they've been around a while.
When Evangel first started (1990?) they played their games at Calvary’s middle school field. The first year or two Evangel played against a bunch of JV teams.
By Josh Booty’s senior season in ‘93, they were setting records and winning a state championship. They went from portable buildings, a borrowed field, and a JV schedule to state champions in 3-4 years. They moved up to 3A in 1995.
Posted on 10/30/24 at 2:58 pm to GhostofLesticleMiles
I was a HS coach in Louisiana and a HS reff
I know way more about this kind of stuff than I care to, both second hand and personally
what is naive is thinking that ECA and JCC were some sort of outliers or unique
or that the schools they played and beat didnt have their own competitive advantages and were innocent of utilizing their own questionable tactics
what was special about JCC and ECA was the sport they dominated, WHO they beat, WHERE they beat them and HOW they beat them. Football is king
the same things have been said about other schools allegedly skirting the rules and dominating in other sports
Southern Lab Basketball goes back into the 80s with similar complaints, there are many more
the National Record for consecutive HS State Championships is Episcopal School of Acadiana with 16 in a row in Class B Volleyball from 1987 to 2002
they routinely beat 5A and 4A schools, could they have played up in class and still been Championship contenders? no doubt
Did they cheat? absolutely not
Were they dominant? yes
How did they do it? Coaching, culture and a massive club team that channeled kids into the program.
Did anybody care? nobody but the teams they beat and their parents
Did the LHSAA look into enacting Association affecting rule changes to stop the ESA Class B Volleyball juggernaut? nope
ESA and JCC played up and won in big school football and got too much attention for it and pissed off the wrong people
I know way more about this kind of stuff than I care to, both second hand and personally
what is naive is thinking that ECA and JCC were some sort of outliers or unique
or that the schools they played and beat didnt have their own competitive advantages and were innocent of utilizing their own questionable tactics
what was special about JCC and ECA was the sport they dominated, WHO they beat, WHERE they beat them and HOW they beat them. Football is king
the same things have been said about other schools allegedly skirting the rules and dominating in other sports
Southern Lab Basketball goes back into the 80s with similar complaints, there are many more
the National Record for consecutive HS State Championships is Episcopal School of Acadiana with 16 in a row in Class B Volleyball from 1987 to 2002
they routinely beat 5A and 4A schools, could they have played up in class and still been Championship contenders? no doubt
Did they cheat? absolutely not
Were they dominant? yes
How did they do it? Coaching, culture and a massive club team that channeled kids into the program.
Did anybody care? nobody but the teams they beat and their parents
Did the LHSAA look into enacting Association affecting rule changes to stop the ESA Class B Volleyball juggernaut? nope
ESA and JCC played up and won in big school football and got too much attention for it and pissed off the wrong people
Posted on 10/30/24 at 2:59 pm to chalmetteowl
quote:the line sold through the LHSAA was that it would hurt both programs - it did not(the bible study group split hurt ECA )
quote:
but pushing them down to destroy 1A and 2A schools
Evangel WAS 1A and Curtis WAS 2A. The play in class people had a point
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