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re: Does the legacy of KBryant get skewed by his tragic death?
Posted on 3/9/20 at 10:13 pm to Rep520
Posted on 3/9/20 at 10:13 pm to Rep520
quote:
Heck, Durant has exceeded Kobe's alltime best season PER three times and Kobe's second best season PER six times.
Kobe is a great player, don't get me wrong, but when you really compare objectively, he isn't top ten.
Career win shares:
Kobe 172.7
Durant 141.7
All NBA:
Kobe 15x
Durant 9x (do you think KD has 6 All NBA seasons left?)
1
Posted on 3/9/20 at 10:15 pm to LittleRockHog501
quote:
Nobody hardcore or casual fans have Dr J above Kobe for good reason. Duncan is debatable.
Doc was about the same as a scorer and in efficiency. He was a better rebounder, pretty comparable as a passer and defender.
Doc's ABA years of 28, 12 and 5 on 26.4 PER were a better stretch than Kobe ever had. Kobe only had 3 seasons above a 25 PER in his career and Doc averaged more than that.
Same with Hakeem. Kobe had 3 seasons over 25 PER. Hakeem had 5, including four in a row in his prime.
Neither Hakeem or Erving lacked for longevity either.
Posted on 3/9/20 at 10:21 pm to MikeD
quote:
Career win shares:
Kobe 172.7
Durant 141.7
Win shares accumulate over time.
Durant has played 12 seasons, Kobe 20. If you extrapolate win shares for KD to 20 seasons, KD has 236.1 to Kobe's 172.7.
Which shows you why Kobe is in Durant's league, and not higher. On a season to season basis, Durant generates significantly higher win shares, if we use the stat you favor.
Posted on 3/9/20 at 11:57 pm to tbabino
It doesn't change for me. He's top 10 all-time before his death (right around 10), that's what he is after.
This post was edited on 3/9/20 at 11:58 pm
Posted on 3/10/20 at 12:02 am to Goldrush25
Not top ten.
Posted on 3/10/20 at 7:39 am to tbabino
quote:
Is he really a top-10 all time player?
Lol no... top 25, sure.
Posted on 3/10/20 at 7:52 am to David Ricky
quote:Did you forget Elgin Baylor existed?
Greatest Laker =/= Greatest player who wore a Lakers uniform
Kobe and Magic are in their own tier as greatest Lakers of all time imo. You could probably put West in that group as well when you factor in his time as GM
Then when you open it up to greatest players to have played for the Lakers, obviously Lebron, Kareem, Shaq and Wilt are factored in
Posted on 3/10/20 at 8:29 am to tbabino
quote:
Does the legacy of KBryant get skewed by his tragic death?
His legacy was skewed when he raped the girl in Colorado. As for his playing, he is top 10 but barely
Very solid career on the court...
Posted on 3/10/20 at 1:54 pm to LanierSpots
anywhere from like 8-14
Posted on 3/10/20 at 2:00 pm to tbabino
Anyone who doesnt have Kobe in their top 20 does not know basketball, plain and simple.
He is borderline top 10, that's a good debate. Personally I had him at 11 the last time I made a list. But top 5 is really pushing it.
Ftr Kobe was my favorite player growing up. He was dang near a superhero for me as a kid. So I was one of those who his death shook pretty hard.
He is borderline top 10, that's a good debate. Personally I had him at 11 the last time I made a list. But top 5 is really pushing it.
Ftr Kobe was my favorite player growing up. He was dang near a superhero for me as a kid. So I was one of those who his death shook pretty hard.
Posted on 3/10/20 at 2:30 pm to tbabino
As far as talent and intangibles are concerned, Kobe’s a top 2-3 player all-time and I started warming up to that notion last couple of years. He’s not great when it comes to efficiency and there are a couple of players I’d rank ahead of him when it comes to clutch play at the end of games (Bird, Jordan, and Kareem) but he’s achieved so many iconic clutch moments over his career that I give him a pass generally. Closest thing to Jordan we’ve seen to this point.
Posted on 3/10/20 at 2:42 pm to ThePTExperience1969
Kobe's clutch play is largely a myth.
Statistical Analysis
The average for a regular NBA player was .417. Kobe was essentially slightly below an average guy in clutch shooting.
Statistical Analysis
quote:
In the clutch period Kobe averaged 3.5 points on 39.3% shooting and 29.2% from deep. He also turned the ball over an average 0.3 times and held a plus-minus of 0.8.
LeBron has been noticeably more efficient in the last five minutes, averaging 3.7 points on 46.8% shooting and 32.5% from downtown. His plus-minus was also well above Kobe’s at 1.46.
The average for a regular NBA player was .417. Kobe was essentially slightly below an average guy in clutch shooting.
Posted on 3/10/20 at 8:49 pm to Shaft Williams
quote:
Of course. Kobe might be top 20. Might. He sure as hell isn't top 10.
Posted on 3/10/20 at 9:31 pm to tbabino
Wtf is this? This isn’t something to troll about. 
Posted on 3/11/20 at 1:30 am to Jamohn
quote:
Did you forget Elgin Baylor existed?
Everyone has. Sadly.
He's the greatest player nobody talks about anymore.
His contemporaries call him MJ before MJ.
Too bad he got injured early on, played with injuries and retired young.
Most underrated player in NBA history
Posted on 3/11/20 at 1:47 am to LittleRockHog501
The consensus is Kobe is Top 15.
You could argue #15 or you could argue #7-10.
Bill Russell, Jordan, Kareem, Magic, Bird, Duncun, Shaq, LeBron, Wilt, Oscar, West.
Ain't easy making Top 10 let alone Top 7.
But Kobe is in that discussion above people like Dr. J and Karl Malone, Hakeem, Barkley, Isiah Thomas etc. which are in the second tier.
You could argue #15 or you could argue #7-10.
Bill Russell, Jordan, Kareem, Magic, Bird, Duncun, Shaq, LeBron, Wilt, Oscar, West.
Ain't easy making Top 10 let alone Top 7.
But Kobe is in that discussion above people like Dr. J and Karl Malone, Hakeem, Barkley, Isiah Thomas etc. which are in the second tier.
This post was edited on 3/11/20 at 1:50 am
Posted on 3/11/20 at 9:34 am to Rep520
my sister went to ucla.
Big kobe fan.
to the point of excited near worship.
she graduated, lived, worked and raised family santa monica.
shes the demographic that made us all have to see him at Christmas.
she was impervious to observation about ref kissing shaq and kobe.
shaq charging in sacto series.
so i cant stand him or lakers. lebron is perfect for them.
its impossible for me to evaluate kobe fairly.
delights me to see his stats are below avg in clutch time. thats because instead of ball movement for team to get best shot he did hero ball.
Big kobe fan.
to the point of excited near worship.
she graduated, lived, worked and raised family santa monica.
shes the demographic that made us all have to see him at Christmas.
she was impervious to observation about ref kissing shaq and kobe.
shaq charging in sacto series.
so i cant stand him or lakers. lebron is perfect for them.
its impossible for me to evaluate kobe fairly.
delights me to see his stats are below avg in clutch time. thats because instead of ball movement for team to get best shot he did hero ball.
This post was edited on 3/11/20 at 9:41 am
Posted on 3/11/20 at 9:50 am to Carson123987
quote:
this is the case for every premature death
Kobe has definitely been canonized early on. We'll see if it fades over time. Too early to tell.
I mean, now that we have been removed from some of these retired stars' early deaths, are their legacies skewed? I don't really see it.
Walter Payton
Derrick Thomas
Junior Seau
Steve McNair
Roy Halladay
Now let's compare those legacies to some of those guys who were still in their careers. Those are definitely skewed.
Len Bias
Hank Gathers
Ernie Davis
Joe Delaney
Jose Fernandez
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