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re: Belichick is and was an average or below coach without Brady
Posted on 10/26/20 at 3:25 pm to sugar71
Posted on 10/26/20 at 3:25 pm to sugar71
quote:
Billick took over & won a SB in 2 seasons with the Ravens & Harbaugh eventually replaced him & won another.
The 6 seasons preceding Belichick in Clevend the Browns( Ravens) made 5 playoff appearances ,won 4 AFC Central divisions & made 3 AFC Championship games.
this is also a tad disingenuous. The Browns made the AFC CG for the 3rd time in 4 years in 1989 but started 2-7 in 1990 and fired Bud Carson in his 2nd season and finished that year 3-13. They hired BB the next year, he went 6-10, 7-9, 7-9 then 11-5 then 5-11 their last year in Cleveland. The first 3 in Baltimore they were also bad, Steve Biscotti bought 49% of the team in March of 2000, since then they have been one of the best franchises.
2
Posted on 10/26/20 at 3:28 pm to SammyTiger
quote:
That’s the highest win percentage of any Browns coach in the last 30 years (outside this year which is. 6 games deep)
He has the brown’s last playoff win.
And for what its worth Brian Billick( only 3 seasons removed from Belichick) was 85-67, won 1 SB & 5 playoff games. Harbaugh has a 60% win percentage & won 10 play games including 1 SB.
Belichick is good enough a coach . No need to tie him to the expansion franchise he had nothing to do with in Cleveland.
Posted on 10/26/20 at 3:31 pm to H-Town Tiger
quote:
The Browns made the AFC CG for the 3rd time in 4 years in 1989 but started 2-7 in 1990 and fired Bud Carson in his 2nd season and finished that year 3-13. They hired BB the next year, he went 6-10, 7-9, 7-9 then 11-5 then 5-11 their last year in Cleveland. The first 3 in Baltimore they were also bad, Steve Biscotti bought 49% of the team in March of 2000, since then they have been one of the best franchises.
I have zero idea what you are trying to say here....
Posted on 10/26/20 at 3:58 pm to H-Town Tiger
quote:
this is also a tad disingenuous. The Browns made the AFC CG for the 3rd time in 4 years in 1989 but started 2-7 in 1990 and fired Bud Carson in his 2nd season and finished that year 3-13. They hired BB the next year, he went 6-10, 7-9, 7-9 then 11-5 then 5-11 their last year in Cleveland. The first 3 in Baltimore they were also bad,
Yes the Browns fricked up by letting Marty Schott go in 89 & hiring Bud Carson. But let's not pretend Belichick took over some expansion franchise completely bereft of talent .
Outside of the 3 seasons of Ted Marchibroda the Ravens( Browns) have been mostly fine ( 2 SBs) post Belichick despite not having a great franchise QB.
Posted on 10/26/20 at 4:03 pm to lsupride87
quote:
And lets not forget, the first super bowl with Brady was 100% won with Bill and his defense
I mean so was the rams one for the most part.
Posted on 10/26/20 at 4:09 pm to St Augustine
quote:
I mean so was the rams one for the most part.
That post season was his 3rd most passing yards of any post season Brady has had in his career
The actual super bowl was on the defense but they won 41-28 in the divisional and 37-31 in the AFC title game
Posted on 10/26/20 at 4:14 pm to wildtigercat93
quote:
The actual super bowl was on the defense
So like I said
quote:
I mean so was the rams one for the most part.
This post was edited on 10/26/20 at 4:15 pm
Posted on 10/26/20 at 4:16 pm to St Augustine
I assumed you meant the super run as a whole
Belicheck saw Jared Goff across the sideline and was like “all I need is 10 points to win this game”
I don’t see how you can try to use that to discredit Brady at all.
Belicheck saw Jared Goff across the sideline and was like “all I need is 10 points to win this game”
I don’t see how you can try to use that to discredit Brady at all.
This post was edited on 10/26/20 at 4:16 pm
Posted on 10/26/20 at 4:43 pm to dukke v
quote:
I have zero idea what you are trying to say here
the year before Belichick was hired the Browns were bad and the team was also bad the first 3-4 years after he was fired and had moved to Baltimore.
ETA: also Steve Biscotti buying into the franchise in 2000 is a big part of the reason they have become as successful as they have.
This post was edited on 10/26/20 at 4:57 pm
Posted on 10/26/20 at 4:44 pm to DeltaDoc
People on this board are dumb as rocks. The Patriots are in a rebuild year with the most opt outs in the league. Don't have a QB worth a shite. Of course they will have a losing record. It'll take time to turn it around.
Lets no act like Brady just turned the Bucs from complete shite to contenders. Tampa already had good talent on that team. They just needed someone to quit turning the ball over and make the smart decision. Basically what Brady is doing now. At the end of day it won't matter. Because both Tom and Bill will be watching the Super Bowl from their couches.
Lets no act like Brady just turned the Bucs from complete shite to contenders. Tampa already had good talent on that team. They just needed someone to quit turning the ball over and make the smart decision. Basically what Brady is doing now. At the end of day it won't matter. Because both Tom and Bill will be watching the Super Bowl from their couches.
Posted on 10/26/20 at 4:54 pm to sugar71
quote:
Yes the Browns fricked up by letting Marty Schott go in 89 & hiring Bud Carson. But let's not pretend Belichick took over some expansion franchise completely bereft of talent .
Kosar was never the same after injuring his elbow in 88 and the bulk of the talent that got them to back to back AFCCG was gone/old, they were 3-13 the year before he got there, that's really bad and its not like, well the QB or some key player was hurt.
quote:
Outside of the 3 seasons of Ted Marchibroda the Ravens( Browns) have been mostly fine ( 2 SBs) post Belichick despite not having a great franchise QB.
Those 2 Super Bowls were 12 years apart
and they had a couple of losing seasons and some other mediocre ones along the way. They also have a different owner. Modell moved the team, but it wasn't until Boscotti bought 49% and eventually the entire franchise that its become a model franchise. you are trying to paint it as if they only struggled with Belichick and otherwise have been winners, that's not exactly accurate. Modell also meddled a lot, Saban has told the story of how, Modell signed Pepper Johnson to a big FA deal and insisted they play him, despite him and BB being against it because Johnson washed up.
Posted on 10/26/20 at 4:55 pm to H-Town Tiger
quote:
The Browns Belichick coached moved to Baltimore and became the Ravens. His last year was the year they announced they were moving and season fell apart. The first few years in Baltimore they were not very good, 2000 was their first winning season.
For some reason, people just ignore how toxic those teams were. They basically had a revolt against the owner.
Posted on 10/26/20 at 4:56 pm to Vlatket
quote:
People on this board are dumb as rocks. The Patriots are in a rebuild year with the most opt outs in the league. Don't have a QB worth a shite. Of course they will have a losing record. It'll take time to turn it around.
Lets no act like Brady just turned the Bucs from complete shite to contenders. Tampa already had good talent on that team. They just needed someone to quit turning the ball over and make the smart decision.
Wait so you give Belicheck a pass on an untalented roster that he built but don’t give any credit to brady for elevating the Bucs because their roster is too good?
you guys do amazing mental gymnastics in these threads 
Posted on 10/26/20 at 5:00 pm to wildtigercat93
quote:Of course gets Brady gets credit for the Bucs being better
Wait so you give Belicheck a pass on an untalented roster that he built but don’t give any credit to brady for elevating the Bucs because their roster is too good? you guys do amazing mental gymnastics in these threads
But the Bucs went 7-9 last year with a QB who threw 30 ints
A good QB is looking at that team and thinking "Yeh, I can win there"This post was edited on 10/26/20 at 5:01 pm
Posted on 10/26/20 at 5:02 pm to lsupride87
quote:
But the Bucs went 7-9 last year with a QB who threw 30 ints A good QB is looking at that team and thinking "Yeh, I can win there"
Obviously it was a good situation for Brady, but the guys argument was “all the Bucs needed was a good QB, lets not give Brady credit for being what they need!!”
It makes no sense
Posted on 10/26/20 at 5:24 pm to DeltaDoc
record of 115-58 (.665)
record of 68-80-1 (.460)
That's Bill Parcell's record with & without Belichick running his defense.
record of 68-80-1 (.460)
That's Bill Parcell's record with & without Belichick running his defense.
Posted on 10/26/20 at 5:25 pm to DeltaDoc
No, but you can't go from Brady to Newton and expect to win.
Posted on 10/26/20 at 5:50 pm to H-Town Tiger
quote:
Those 2 Super Bowls were 12 years apart and they had a couple of losing seasons and some other mediocre ones along the way. They also have a different owner. Modell moved the team, but it wasn't until Boscotti bought 49% and eventually the entire franchise that its become a model franchise.
Marty Shotteheimer had that same "bad " Modell ownership ( since thats your excuse for Belichick losing) & took over the 1-7 / 5-11 Browns who had 1 winning season in 5 years.
In 4 full seasons Marty never had a losing record .Marty won 3 Division titles & 1 2nd place finish,. Marty went to 2 AFC Championships & we all know he was a couple plays from 2 SBs. Despite that horrible/ meddling Modell
The Franchise Belichick coached has had success before & after him & has nothing to do with the expansion Browns was the only point I was making. And here you are with Art Modell excuses & Kosar's elbow.
This post was edited on 10/26/20 at 5:51 pm
Posted on 10/26/20 at 5:55 pm to Jcorye1
quote:
For some reason, people just ignore how toxic those teams were. They basically had a revolt against the owner.
i just mentioned this in another post but Saban has talked about he owner meddling. Which is not to say Belichick did an awesome job or anything he did not, but he's not the only coach that got better after his first job. But this whole idea that it's either Brady or Belichick i think is silly, it's BOTH. Neither likely has as many titles without the other.
This post was edited on 10/26/20 at 5:57 pm
Posted on 10/26/20 at 6:07 pm to H-Town Tiger
quote:
i just mentioned this in another post but Saban has talked about he owner meddling.
Sounds like excuses to me. Marty's 4 seasons after taking over the 1-7/ 5-11 Browns with the meddling owner :
No losing seasons. 4 playoff appearances. 3 Division titles( another 2nd place finish). 2 AFC Championship games .
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