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re: Alonzo mourning says Jordan would average 50 today.
Posted on 3/31/15 at 2:32 pm to lsupride87
Posted on 3/31/15 at 2:32 pm to lsupride87
quote:
the greats from today
The problem is there isn't many greats that play today.
Say what you want about the 80s but it had some of the best to ever play the game in that era.
4
Posted on 3/31/15 at 2:35 pm to offshoretrash
quote:
The problem is there isn't many greats that play today.
Now we are back to the absurd.This post was edited on 3/31/15 at 2:37 pm
Posted on 3/31/15 at 2:51 pm to RonBurgundy
quote:Yet they shot far more free throws during the "hard" era. I get that the styles have changed (shooting more threes), which is probably a major reason free throws are less frequent today. That being said, if it was so much "harder" then, even accounting for the changes in offensive styles, I would expect free throws to have been fewer.
Kobe Bryant
Posted on 3/31/15 at 3:11 pm to buckeye_vol
quote:
Now we are back to the absurd.
There are only around 10 maybe 15 great players playing today not counting the washed up players like Kobe and Wade.
Hell the Celtics and Lakers had 3 or 4 greats each on their teams alone.
Joakim Noah was ranked the 17th best player in the NBA by SI. Do you really consider him a great player?
You guys that think today's NBA is so great are the ones being absurd.
This post was edited on 3/31/15 at 3:17 pm
Posted on 3/31/15 at 3:25 pm to offshoretrash
quote:Well it's easier to look back and see who the great players were after their careers have been played out. Besides there is always a nostalgia bias.
There are only around 10 maybe 15 great players playing today not counting the washed up players like Kobe and Wade.
Hell the Celtics and Lakers had 3 or 4 greats each on their teams alone.
Joakim Noah was ranked the 17th best player in the NBA by SI. Do you really consider him a great player?
Besides of course some teams had more greats on a team, they only 23 teams in the 80, compared to 30 now. Whether constriction is good or bad is another topic, but if we took away 7 teams, the remaining 23 will have more top heavy talent, especially the best teams.
Regardless, the talent level of today's players is very high. If you can't see that then it's your loss.
As for Joakim Noah, it's a limited snapshot. Looking at the 86-87 season here are some names I think he top 20 of win shares.
James Donaldson
Sleepy Floyd
Fat Lever
Derek Harper
Rodney McCray
Ricky Pierce
All had fairly good careers, but hardly a snapshot of all time greats. That's what happens when you look at a single season or two.
This post was edited on 3/31/15 at 3:34 pm
Posted on 3/31/15 at 3:29 pm to buckeye_vol
quote:
That is counter to the evidence though. They averaged about 8 free throws more per game in Jordan's scoring prime (mid to late 80s). Even adjusting for pace, they took far more free throws during that time.
On average, sure. But I'd imagine MJ would draw fouls a la someone like James Harden if the whistles were blowing every time someone touched him.
But either way, I was clarifying that Mourning didn't say Jordan "would average 50."
Posted on 3/31/15 at 3:37 pm to offshoretrash
quote:hahahahahhhahahhahahahahahahhahahahahahahahhha
The problem is there isn't many greats that play today.
We have finally reached full on MSB nba nostalgia thread
This post was edited on 3/31/15 at 3:37 pm
Posted on 3/31/15 at 3:39 pm to offshoretrash
quote:hahahahhahahahahahhahahahhahahahahhahahahahahahhahah
There are only around 10 maybe 15 great players playing today not counting the washed up players like Kobe and Wade.
Hell the Celtics and Lakers had 3 or 4 greats each on their teams alone.
Joakim Noah was ranked the 17th best player in the NBA by SI. Do you really consider him a great player?
You guys that think today's NBA is so great are the ones being absurd.
Posted on 3/31/15 at 3:41 pm to buckeye_vol
quote:
the talent level of today's players is very high.
But there is a big gap from greats to just good players. It is what it is, I'm not being bias. The top ten players today is an amazing group of great players.
Posted on 3/31/15 at 3:56 pm to CocomoLSU
quote:
On average, sure. But I'd imagine MJ would draw fouls a la someone like James Harden if the whistles were blowing every time someone touched him.
You stole that line from me!!!
like 5 pages ago 
Posted on 3/31/15 at 4:00 pm to CocomoLSU
quote:It's possible that MJ would shoot more free throws, but the data do not support it. For example, in his 11 full seasons in Chicago, on average he attempted about 31.4% of the league average for free throws per game (to provide a relative comparison).
That is counter to the evidence though. They averaged about 8 free throws more per game in Jordan's scoring prime (mid to late 80s). Even adjusting for pace, they took far more free throws during that time.
On average, sure. But I'd imagine MJ would draw fouls a la someone like James Harden if the whistles were blowing every time someone touched him.
But either way, I was clarifying that Mourning didn't say Jordan "would average 50."
The highest was during his 37.1 PPG season (39%) where he averaged 11.9 FTS called to the league average of 30.5. Today 11.9 would be 52.2% of the 22.8 FTAs a TEAM averages.
So it seems unreasonable given these data, that he would average more than that when that is counter to his own personal statistics (only averaged > 10 twice) and population level statistics that show a decrease in FTS.
This post was edited on 3/31/15 at 4:01 pm
Posted on 3/31/15 at 4:06 pm to offshoretrash
quote:
The problem is there isn't many greats that play today.
Say what you want about the 80s but it had some of the best to ever play the game in that era.
LeBron James - top 5 player all time, #1 SF all time
KD - most likely will be top 5 SF all time, could be top 25 player. Matters how the rest of his career goes
D Wade - probably #3 SG all time, top 50 player.
Kobe - #2 SG all time, top 10 player
Tim Duncan - #1 PF all time, top 10 player
Dirk - #1 foreigner all time
These are just the ELITES playing right now.
LeBron, Kobe, and Tim Duncan will make up 30% of the top 10 players to ever play the game.
KD is still climbing and could reach pretty high. D Wade is up there. Then you have other young players who could make a big hit to all time status like Westbrook and Anthony Davis and Steph Curry
Lot of possibly all time greats are still in the league
This post was edited on 3/31/15 at 4:07 pm
Posted on 3/31/15 at 4:12 pm to buckeye_vol
I understand what you're saying, and don't disagree with the data. I'm simply saying that regardless of overall FT numbers, that data is based on a system where he wasn't getting calls for people touching him like someone like Harden gets today...so I'm saying he adapts his game and would draw insane amounts of fouls (or just would blow by people) in today's game.
And FWIW, certainly don't put me in the "no stars today" camp. Lebron, Chris Paul, etc. would do very well no matter what era he played in, just as Jordan, Bird, etc. would as well. The all-time greats are all-time greats for a reason.
And FWIW, certainly don't put me in the "no stars today" camp. Lebron, Chris Paul, etc. would do very well no matter what era he played in, just as Jordan, Bird, etc. would as well. The all-time greats are all-time greats for a reason.
Posted on 3/31/15 at 4:22 pm to CocomoLSU
quote:But are players really getting more calls? They shoot far less free throws per game. Obviously more 3s accounts for that, but I think it is more a myth about "touchy" calls. I actually think the defensive rules make it harder to get to the lane. In other words, it may be easier to get by the first player (handcheck rules), but now defense can legally help more (zone type defenses). I think it's sort of a wash in terms of efficiency, but the slower pace brings all raw numbers down.
I understand what you're saying, and don't disagree with the data. I'm simply saying that regardless of overall FT numbers, that data is based on a system where he wasn't getting calls for people touching him like someone like Harden gets today...so I'm saying he adapts his game and would draw insane amounts of fouls (or just would blow by people) in today's game.
And I didn't think you were in that "no stars today" category. In fact, you and Buckeye06 and some other posters had substantive arguments and worth analyzing data and debating.
Posted on 3/31/15 at 4:23 pm to offshoretrash
quote:
The problem is there isn't many greats that play today.
Jesus Christ.
Thread officially jumped the shark right here.
My God....
Posted on 3/31/15 at 4:24 pm to offshoretrash
quote:
You guys that think today's NBA is so great are the ones being absurd.
Jesus H. Monkeyfricking Christ on a goddamn saltine cracker.
Posted on 3/31/15 at 4:26 pm to TbirdSpur2010
DeAndre Jordon would average 50 in 1995.
Posted on 3/31/15 at 4:42 pm to TbirdSpur2010
quote:
Thread officially jumped the shark right here.
Well who are they? Who are the potential HOF players playing today? List them!
Posted on 3/31/15 at 4:44 pm to mattz1122
quote:
DeAndre Jordon would average 50 in 1995
Def would have 2-3 sick dunks every night.
Posted on 3/31/15 at 4:56 pm to offshoretrash
HOF Probability
This equation (minimum of 400 games) estimates that 14 current players have >90% chance and 18 players have >70% chance of making the HOF.
It doesn't appear that players that just crossed the 400 game minimum this season (Curry; Harden) have been included yet. There are many great players today; your perception is counter to reality.
This equation (minimum of 400 games) estimates that 14 current players have >90% chance and 18 players have >70% chance of making the HOF.
It doesn't appear that players that just crossed the 400 game minimum this season (Curry; Harden) have been included yet. There are many great players today; your perception is counter to reality.
This post was edited on 3/31/15 at 5:07 pm
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