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re: 2023 Formula 1 season Thread
Posted on 3/19/23 at 5:48 pm to Lsut81
Posted on 3/19/23 at 5:48 pm to Lsut81
quote:
They should have to inform within 5 laps
Most definitely. It's not like this is a fuel test failure or other technical rule broken that can only be found out after the race is over. It's a racing infraction, and as such it should be pretty fricking easy to review and communicate within five laps.
It's the same thing with Lance and the safety car. Race director said it was because they didn't have the proper cameras to determine if he was off the track or not. It's like, y'all have radios, guys. Marshals can radio back to race direction and say "He's behind the barrier." Go sector yellow and then deploy a safety car or VSC in 9 seconds when the helicopter camera pans that way.
0
Posted on 3/19/23 at 5:51 pm to bikerack
quote:
In support of the Petition for Review, the Stewards were shown minutes of the latest SAC meeting and video evidence of 7 different instances where cars were touched by the jack while serving a similar penalty to the one imposed on Car 14 without being penalized.
If this is true, then following the precedent (of no penalty) is the correct decision until they can all come together to agree yet again that touching the car at all constitutes "working" on it.
It sounds like an enforcement issue of a clear rule (neither officials nor teams were paying close attention to this previously), and this is a fair result for this incident because of the lax enforcement.Posted on 3/19/23 at 5:53 pm to BuckyCheese
quote:
That is not spelled out in the rulebook.
The pertinent rules have been posted on another forum and nowhere is "touching" the car mentioned. Only work.
Interesting! Then the rules were unfortunately vague, creating this mess.
Posted on 3/19/23 at 5:54 pm to TouchedTheAxeIn82
That is what I don't get. The stewards admit that this issue has been reviewed and agreed upon that touching is working.
The stewards don't agree so they are refusing to act.
Like, WTF?
Also, to be clear, had the decision of 10s penalty during the race been decided, Aston couldn't have appealed.
The stewards don't agree so they are refusing to act.
Like, WTF?
Also, to be clear, had the decision of 10s penalty during the race been decided, Aston couldn't have appealed.
This post was edited on 3/19/23 at 5:58 pm
Posted on 3/19/23 at 5:59 pm to fightin tigers
quote:
That is what I don't get. The stewards admit that this issue has been reviewed and agreed upon that touching is working.
In the reversal they state they reviewed the minutes of the SAC meeting, so apparently it was NOT agreed that touching is working by that group.
Posted on 3/19/23 at 6:04 pm to BuckyCheese
Are there any post-race stats on track limit occurences? It seems every time they showed Turn 23, someone was off. Did they not include Turn 23 to track limits today?
Posted on 3/19/23 at 6:17 pm to Projectpat
quote:
4D chess move, gave a trophy to Mercedes just so they could rip it away and further demoralize them.
Love it!
Posted on 3/19/23 at 7:14 pm to fightin tigers
quote:
The stewards admit that this issue has been reviewed and agreed upon that touching is working.
quote:if they haven't enforced this "rule" before then they shouldn't now.
video evidence of 7 different instances where cars were touched by the jack while serving a similar penalty to the one imposed on Car 14 without being penalized.
quote:ALO earned his podium. Taking it away for that kinda bullshite is just dumb. Even the 5 sec penalty on the start is dumb. Back in the 80s half the field would be rolling before the start. It's not like ALO jumped it he was just barely to the left of the side line of the box. He was always going to beat checo off the line. He's done that since he started in F1
The stewards don't agree so they are refusing to act.
Like, WTF?
Posted on 3/19/23 at 7:21 pm to UncleFestersLegs
quote:
if they haven't enforced this "rule" before then they shouldn't now.
They enforced it last week. Think Zhou got enforced last year.
Posted on 3/19/23 at 7:29 pm to fightin tigers
Posted on 3/19/23 at 7:34 pm to fightin tigers
quote:
They enforced it last week.
Last week they actually started working on the wing on Ocon's car before the 5 seconds was up.
AM showed 7 examples of the jack touching the car while serving a penalty with no further penalty being levied.
Nothing in rules says you cannot "touch" the car. You can't work on it while serving the time penalty. Touching and actually doing something is obviously different.
They may revise the rule to prevent any further confusion, but AM did not violate the rule as written and they showed the SAC had not revised it's understanding of what working on the car means as far as touching it.
Posted on 3/19/23 at 7:34 pm to BuckyCheese
All of that crying Mercedes has done and they’re sitting second in the standings. 
Posted on 3/19/23 at 7:34 pm to BuckyCheese
Looks like that's the pts with RUS taking 3rd
Posted on 3/19/23 at 7:35 pm to fightin tigers
Yeah, it does. I think they are tied at 38.
Posted on 3/19/23 at 7:37 pm to BuckyCheese
quote:
Last week they actually started working on the wing on Ocon's car before the 5 seconds was up.
You think any appreciable work happened in .4 seconds other than touching?
Which I think is the root argument. Just don't touch the car and there is no debate.
Posted on 3/19/23 at 7:38 pm to fightin tigers
Posted on 3/19/23 at 7:41 pm to fightin tigers
quote:
You think any appreciable work happened in .4 seconds other than touching?
Yes. .4 of second worth.
quote:
Just don't touch the car and there is no debate.
Which is probably what most of the teams have told their mechanics. Which gave the false impression that it was the rule.
It's not and never was.
Posted on 3/19/23 at 7:42 pm to BuckyCheese
Here's the rule for you to chew on;
Art 54.3. letter a)
The stewards may impose any one of the penalties below on any driver involved in an Incident:
A five (5) second time penalty. The driver must enter the pit lane, stop in his pit stop position for at least five seconds and then re-join the sprint session or the race. The relevant driver may however elect not to stop, provided he carries out no further pit stop before the end of the sprint session or the race. In such cases five (5) seconds will be added to the elapsed the sprint session or race time of the driver concerned.
Article 54.4.
Whilst a car is stationary in the pit lane as a result of incurring a penalty in accordance with Articles 54.3 a) or 54.3 b) above, it may not be worked on until the car has been stationary for the duration of the penalty.
Note there is absolutely no mention, reference, or even intimation concerning touching.
Art 54.3. letter a)
The stewards may impose any one of the penalties below on any driver involved in an Incident:
A five (5) second time penalty. The driver must enter the pit lane, stop in his pit stop position for at least five seconds and then re-join the sprint session or the race. The relevant driver may however elect not to stop, provided he carries out no further pit stop before the end of the sprint session or the race. In such cases five (5) seconds will be added to the elapsed the sprint session or race time of the driver concerned.
Article 54.4.
Whilst a car is stationary in the pit lane as a result of incurring a penalty in accordance with Articles 54.3 a) or 54.3 b) above, it may not be worked on until the car has been stationary for the duration of the penalty.
Note there is absolutely no mention, reference, or even intimation concerning touching.
This post was edited on 3/19/23 at 7:44 pm
Posted on 3/19/23 at 7:45 pm to BuckyCheese
quote:
Note there is absolutely no mention, reference, or even intimation concerning touching.
It doesn't mention ejaculating on it either.... both situations are a tool touching a car :rimshot:
What is the reason for touching with the jack? To gain an advantage, no?
Go back to brazil 2021, just don't touch the car.
This post was edited on 3/19/23 at 7:48 pm
Posted on 3/19/23 at 7:55 pm to fightin tigers
Ham doing Ham things 
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