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re: 111: TDF Poggie Genetics Harder than You. Fin.
Posted on 7/21/24 at 1:00 pm to Obtuse1
Posted on 7/21/24 at 1:00 pm to Obtuse1
Jonas looks spent and broken while Tadej looks like he just finished his pre-ride breakfast. 1:03 on Jonas with that profile is another alien performance given what should be their strengths.
2
Posted on 7/21/24 at 3:46 pm to Obtuse1
Jonas' personal chef must be moonlighting with the Pogacar household. Confident Tadej is in possession of Jonas' secret formula from 2023 and 2022.
Posted on 7/21/24 at 6:44 pm to Soft_Parade
I wonder if those reporters that began tearing Armstrong's life apart will do the same with Tadej. He's crossing the line looking fresh and dominating people, while giving hand signals and clowning around.
It doesn't look real.
I went back to look at Stage 16 last year where Jonas buries Pogacar on the ITT and Pog looks spent, Jonas looks spent. This year with a complete reversal, Jonas looks spent and Pogacar looks like he just finished a warmup. It's just crazy.
It doesn't look real.
I went back to look at Stage 16 last year where Jonas buries Pogacar on the ITT and Pog looks spent, Jonas looks spent. This year with a complete reversal, Jonas looks spent and Pogacar looks like he just finished a warmup. It's just crazy.
Posted on 7/21/24 at 8:23 pm to POTUS2024
quote:And you think Jonas 2022 and 2023 was? Jonas can dominate Tadej and its clean, but Tadej dominating Jonas is tainted?
It doesn't look real
Jonas went from the ITT being a weakness to decimating the field in 2023 and beating the world champion today.
This post was edited on 7/21/24 at 8:28 pm
Posted on 7/21/24 at 9:13 pm to Soft_Parade
quote:
And you think Jonas 2022 and 2023 was? Jonas can dominate Tadej and its clean, but Tadej dominating Jonas is tainted?
1. I am a Pogacar fan
2. I don't care who is using PEDs among the pros in part because I think they are "all" using
I don't think anyone is arguing Jonas was clean the last two years nor this year. The dude was almost dead 3 months ago. You don't come back from that and beat 174 riders in the TdF in less than 4 months clean.
The issue is Tadej is on a weird next level of performance. At the end of a TT when you should have had the last pedal stroke across the line be the last one you had to give he is fresh as a daisy. He barely looks like he even warned up on the trainer. This is after putting a minute three into Jonas which was the largest gap between any two riders in the entire ITT.
The "issue" is Tadej is a bright strobing red light screaming doping. He has won 28.6% of the GT stages this year and if you look at him at the finish of all those stages he looked like a man that has been out for a recovery ride. This will backfire if it keeps up. However, it is fun to watch.
Posted on 7/21/24 at 9:25 pm to Obtuse1
I'm all for him dominating the Vuelta to see what kind of stories start coming out
Posted on 7/21/24 at 9:44 pm to Soft_Parade
quote:
And you think Jonas 2022 and 2023 was?
No - and nowhere do I say that I think Jonas was clean. Enhanced but human is how he appeared/appears. Pogacar doesn't even look human now.
quote:
Jonas can dominate Tadej and its clean, but Tadej dominating Jonas is tainted?
Not what I said.
quote:
Jonas went from the ITT being a weakness to decimating the field in 2023 and beating the world champion today.
Yes, and the talk was all about how that happened and wanting to know what his protocol was. And now that things have reversed, the talk will be the other way around, wondering what Pogacar is doing.
Posted on 7/22/24 at 8:33 am to Obtuse1
quote:
1:03 on Jonas with that profile is another alien performance given what should be their strengths.
Pog put 40 seconds into him on the descent. Was only up 7 seconds after T1 which was at the top of the first climb. Like the descent off the Galibier Pog’s weight plays a big factor plus he lives in Monaco so he has reconned the course a lot prior to yesterday and he took all the risks.
Posted on 7/22/24 at 8:38 am to Soft_Parade
quote:
Jonas went from the ITT being a weakness to decimating the field in 2023 and beating the world champion today.
This wasn’t a good course Remco.
Posted on 7/22/24 at 9:12 am to crazyLSUstudent
if Pog is doping, then they are all doping. which is fine.
He's breaking these records, but a lot of those records were also broken by the top 3-10 riders depending on climb and he just beat them.
He's breaking these records, but a lot of those records were also broken by the top 3-10 riders depending on climb and he just beat them.
Posted on 7/22/24 at 9:42 am to castorinho
I think the odds are good that his docs have something at least a little special up their sleeves. As Obtuse said, the way he's looked after two GTs and a heap of tough stages is unprecedented.
The most egregious examples I've seen live are Lance looking like a cartoon character up the Alpe, Floyd raging like a madman solo after a bonk and Cancellara cruising up the Kapelmuur in the saddle, and Tadej this year has made those look like child's play.
I figured winning such a high percentage of stages was left to the ages of 50 years ago when talent likely wasn't as deep so this has been really surprising. As long as it doesn't involve a motor it just adds more to the lore of the sport. Seems like he'd have to have some kind of inside help from the UCI for a motor and the chances of him getting away with that for the Giro and Tour seem extremely remote.
The most egregious examples I've seen live are Lance looking like a cartoon character up the Alpe, Floyd raging like a madman solo after a bonk and Cancellara cruising up the Kapelmuur in the saddle, and Tadej this year has made those look like child's play.
I figured winning such a high percentage of stages was left to the ages of 50 years ago when talent likely wasn't as deep so this has been really surprising. As long as it doesn't involve a motor it just adds more to the lore of the sport. Seems like he'd have to have some kind of inside help from the UCI for a motor and the chances of him getting away with that for the Giro and Tour seem extremely remote.
Posted on 7/22/24 at 11:25 am to Diseasefreeforall
quote:
I think the odds are good that his docs have something at least a little special up their sleeves.
Chicken knows we just need him to tell us.
Posted on 7/22/24 at 2:36 pm to Obtuse1
Pogi out of the Olympics
Posted on 7/22/24 at 4:13 pm to crazyLSUstudent
quote:
Pogi out of the Olympics
Is it really tiredness or making a stand against Ukrska not being picked for the Slovenian Olympic team?
Posted on 7/22/24 at 6:06 pm to Obtuse1
Loading Twitter/X Embed...
If tweet fails to load, click here. There's definitely something new and undetectable in Europe. Sure it's in track at this point too.
Posted on 7/22/24 at 7:08 pm to Obtuse1
quote:
making a stand against Ukrska not being picked for the Slovenian Olympic team?
The latter. Just didn’t want to announce during the tour and field questions about it
Posted on 7/22/24 at 8:36 pm to crazyLSUstudent
Have seen a bunch of tweets saying Pogacar is out of the Olympics "due to fatigue" which made me laugh, after watching him clown everyone and look fresh at the end of the Stage 21 ITT.
Chris Horner says he is now going to Worlds, in late September. Vuelta starts Aug 17, iirc.
Horner makes a pretty good case for Pogacar to do La Vuelta. McNulty and other good UAE riders have been training and are fresh and posting good numbers, and they'll be at La Vuelta. Visma won't be a threat, who knows about Primoz. Remco can't hang with Pogacar. To me it looks like a perfect scenario for Pogacar. And I would even consider him finishing La Vuelta and doing Worlds.
When you saunter across the line at the end of the TDF, putting a minute on your nearest rival, I'm not buying the idea that he needs rest. He's destroying people. I say burn all the matches and go for the triple, then Worlds, and have the best season in the history of the sport, and one of the best seasons in the history of all sports. If that means next year gets delayed with an extra long break, so be it.
Chris Horner says he is now going to Worlds, in late September. Vuelta starts Aug 17, iirc.
Horner makes a pretty good case for Pogacar to do La Vuelta. McNulty and other good UAE riders have been training and are fresh and posting good numbers, and they'll be at La Vuelta. Visma won't be a threat, who knows about Primoz. Remco can't hang with Pogacar. To me it looks like a perfect scenario for Pogacar. And I would even consider him finishing La Vuelta and doing Worlds.
When you saunter across the line at the end of the TDF, putting a minute on your nearest rival, I'm not buying the idea that he needs rest. He's destroying people. I say burn all the matches and go for the triple, then Worlds, and have the best season in the history of the sport, and one of the best seasons in the history of all sports. If that means next year gets delayed with an extra long break, so be it.
Posted on 7/22/24 at 10:47 pm to POTUS2024
Progression of time gap over stage 21. Tadej essentially took all his time in the descents and flats against Jonas
Posted on 7/23/24 at 5:23 am to crazyLSUstudent
Interesting graph.
Looks like Jonas is faster in starting a climb but then Pogacar speeds up (relative to Jonas) and adds more time throughout the climb on the back half. Suggests to me that Jonas cracks on each climb because his tank is getting low. Or, perhaps Tadej accelerates on the climb but needs to find a rhythm and starts slow. I don't recall debris in the road or a mechanical to explain that changing relationship between early and late on the climbs.
Also - that big shark fin at the end. Not sure what caused that - over the span of about a 1km he adds like 30s on them and then loses it all when he starts backing off (I guess). Maybe in that span the other two were at the limit and fading fast?
These quantitative and graphical breakdowns are always cool to look at.
Looks like Jonas is faster in starting a climb but then Pogacar speeds up (relative to Jonas) and adds more time throughout the climb on the back half. Suggests to me that Jonas cracks on each climb because his tank is getting low. Or, perhaps Tadej accelerates on the climb but needs to find a rhythm and starts slow. I don't recall debris in the road or a mechanical to explain that changing relationship between early and late on the climbs.
Also - that big shark fin at the end. Not sure what caused that - over the span of about a 1km he adds like 30s on them and then loses it all when he starts backing off (I guess). Maybe in that span the other two were at the limit and fading fast?
These quantitative and graphical breakdowns are always cool to look at.
Posted on 7/23/24 at 6:13 am to castorinho
quote:
if Pog is doping, then they are all doping. which is fine.
That isn’t necessarily true.
You have to have access to the latest and greatest mechanism for cheating.
Perhaps it’s this:
quote:
The use of lugworm haemoglobin could become the latest blood doping technique to be used in professional cycling, with its creator Dr. Franck Zal revealing to l’Equipe that in 2020, a “well-known cyclist whose team participates in the Tour de France, contacted me because he wanted the product".
quote:
Dr. Zal patented his discovery and created the Hemarina company, that has its own worm farm on the Island of Noirmoutier in the Vendée region of France. Hemarina claims lugworm haemoglobin is a universal blood substitute that can transport 40 times more oxygen than human haemoglobin. It is 250 times smaller than other red blood cells, which helps circulation. It is compatible with all blood groups, doesn’t increase blood hematocrit or cause high blood pressure like bovine or human haemoglobin. It can be stored at room temperature and freeze-dried, making it easy to transport.
And then there is this…
quote:
Anti-doping blood tests can detect the ‘super haemoglobin’ but it is easy to use and its short half life means it becomes undetectable after just a few hours. Its use is unlikely to be spotted in an athlete's Biological Passport.
If it is administered at the beginning of the stage, it would be undetectable by the end.
How is it being administered (if at all)?
That’s the big question for everyone.
However, if it’s being used, then it would explain quite a bit.
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