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Yield Curve Un-inverting

Posted on 10/20/23 at 2:13 pm
Posted by themasterpater
I travel
Member since Sep 2014
1342 posts
Posted on 10/20/23 at 2:13 pm
Yield curve is about to un-invert, is something going to break?

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/T10Y2Y



This post was edited on 10/20/23 at 2:16 pm
Posted by Breesus
House of the Rising Sun
Member since Jan 2010
66982 posts
Posted on 10/20/23 at 2:27 pm to
It’s unnerving when it’s uninverting uninterrupted but is it unintentional or unfortunate?
Posted by I Love Bama
Alabama
Member since Nov 2007
37695 posts
Posted on 10/20/23 at 2:57 pm to
When something breaks, they will crank QE back up.I found this chart interesting.


Posted by TigerTatorTots
The Safeshore
Member since Jul 2009
80765 posts
Posted on 10/20/23 at 3:35 pm to
When things uninvert is when the fireworks typically show up. Going to be an interesting next 12 months

Hope they hired more hamsters for the money printer
Posted by wutangfinancial
Treasure Valley
Member since Sep 2015
11079 posts
Posted on 10/20/23 at 3:36 pm to
quote:

Yield curve is about to un-invert, is something going to break?



I wouldn't be surprised if foreigners are selling treausry holdings to service higher dollar denominated costs. Check out the DXY. Don't be shocked if it's breaking out over $115 in this environment. Tack on the supply to fund the deficits and it's a nasty feedback loop.
Posted by Bard
Definitely NOT an admin
Member since Oct 2008
51489 posts
Posted on 10/20/23 at 7:12 pm to
quote:

Hope they hired more hamsters for the money printer


That's the problem though, isn't it? If they turn the presses on again, we risk hyperinflation. If they don't, we risk what may well be a deep recession.

One is less shitty than the other, but neither are good.
Posted by TDTOM
Member since Jan 2021
14343 posts
Posted on 10/20/23 at 7:24 pm to
Interesting. Gold seems to have somewhat caught a bid this past week. Don't these two normally have a negative correlation?
This post was edited on 10/20/23 at 7:26 pm
Posted by corndawg85
MS
Member since Oct 2013
832 posts
Posted on 10/20/23 at 8:35 pm to
quote:

If they turn the presses on again, we risk hyperinflation. If they don't, we risk what may well be a deep recession.


I hate to say it but a lot of people in this country need to be reminded what suffering looks like.
Posted by jimjackandjose
Member since Jun 2011
6496 posts
Posted on 10/20/23 at 9:56 pm to
Now is time to buy the sqqq
Posted by wutangfinancial
Treasure Valley
Member since Sep 2015
11079 posts
Posted on 10/21/23 at 10:11 am to
Gold typically outperforms during periods of negative real rates. Everything is whacky right now. Forward curves have rate cuts priced in next year. Trading right now is hard AF.
Posted by Wraytex
San Antonio - Gonzales
Member since Jun 2020
1982 posts
Posted on 10/21/23 at 10:27 am to
"I hate to say it but a lot of people in this country need to be reminded what suffering looks like."

And if we get to the point they have to divest posessions, anything they stand to unload that they blew their paychecks on will be worthless Chinese tech junk. The days of scoring nice durable toys on craigslist are few and far between.
Posted by Bard
Definitely NOT an admin
Member since Oct 2008
51489 posts
Posted on 10/22/23 at 10:18 am to
quote:

I hate to say it but a lot of people in this country need to be reminded what suffering looks like.


I don't disagree, but I think that may end up making things even worse.

When we had the Great Depression, there was no Section 8, SNAP, etc. The federal government created work programs but that was about it (if memory serves). No, I don't think we are heading into another Great Depression, but I can't help but wonder how much worse it will make a possible Recession to have millions more people quickly jumping into the federal coffers.

If we have a bad recession, there will be massive calls to expand public assistance programs (both in who gets covered and how much each tier gets in benefits). People don't go to DC to sacrifice their political careers, so the smart money would be on DC acquiescing to these demands regardless of the dangers.

If this happens, it would have impacts from two different vectors.

1. The first would be the obvious increase in federal deficit spending (not just increasing deficit spending through more spending but also through less revenues coming into the federal coffers). This would mean more debt, thus a greater amount of revenues needed just to service the debt (ie: within 2 years we could be thinking of $1T just in annual debt servicing being "the good old days").

2. The second would be that extra money going into the economy helping to keep inflation sticky. It likely wouldn't be enough to permeate throughout the economy (mid-higher end electronics, for example, would likely take a big hit). This would limit the range and intensity of that suffering many need to be reminded of (we see this already with what looks like a credit card bubble, when looking at consumer debt and the rise in consumer debt defaults).
Posted by NC_Tigah
Carolinas
Member since Sep 2003
123814 posts
Posted on 10/23/23 at 4:09 am to
quote:

I found this chart interesting.
This one is interesting as well.

With rising rates the yield on the 30-year Treasury bond just surpassed the S&P 500’s earnings yield. That will add to equity pressures.
Posted by Hayekian serf
GA
Member since Dec 2020
2513 posts
Posted on 10/23/23 at 5:05 am to
I don’t think they can play kick the inflationary can down the road anymore.

They don’t have many more tricks left in the bag. But we may have to pay for a war by printing money so who knows.
Posted by Lsut81
Member since Jun 2005
80107 posts
Posted on 10/23/23 at 6:00 am to
quote:

Yield curve is about to un-invert, is something going to break?


Theres only one play... Iraqi Dinar


You can thank me later
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