- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
When do Renewables make a comeback?
Posted on 2/24/24 at 12:40 am
Posted on 2/24/24 at 12:40 am
If you look at renewable companies, they took off in late 20 to mid 22. Whether they are sustainable aviation fuel, Carbon capture sequestration projects, Green hydrogen, quasi solar/wind (reason I say quasi is they've been established for decades. It's more of the new kind of renewables), EVs (Rivian was $130 now $10ish).
At some point these will make a comeback. I don't know when. Could be 1 year, 3, 5, or 10 but they'll make a comeback. When do you expect it to? Tbh, now may be a good time to get back in.
I do believe the world will transition from oil and gas. Many companies pledge completely carbon neutral by 2050. Paris agreement in Europe says too. I don't think it's a question of will it happen or not, but when will it happen. I think by 2030 you will see a real large take off in the industry where significant market share becomes newer renewable energy methods other than solar/wind.
Also Europe is starting a tax on CO2 emissions beginning 2030, $300/metric ton for CO2 abaters like refineries, concrete producers. To put in perspective, a refinery can easily release 1 million metric tons of CO2 a year which means a $300 million plus penalty for them. It's much cheaper for them to capture CO2, pipeline it to a well, and inject. Prob something in the $50-75/MT range to do that having modeled these projects. Once that occurs, it'll change for them as that's extremely expensive compared to the Inflation Reduction Act of 2022 in the US that offers $85 per metric ton of CO2 sequestered. Europe is penalizing emitters in 2030 while US is offering tax credits for lowering emissions but under 1/3 what Europe is penalizing at for emitters.
I feel in next 5 years that these stocks will take off again.
Some companies to look at are Hydrogen projects. The IRA 2022 offers $3/kg of H2 for projects that emit less than 0.45 kg of CO2 per kg of H2. Hydrogen trades today around 90 cents a kg. That $3/kg tax credit can be profitable if done right and is over 3x what "grey" hydrogen costs on market today. Sustainable aviation fuel refiners is supposed to be another large industry. Valero is already building a SAF plant in Houston. Exxon is as well. BP is plannin to build 5 plants. There's opportunity to find a smaller company who does this and get a 10-bagger. Exxon, BP, Valero won't 10x increase due to massive size, but the small caps entering this can. Every airline has pledged to have 10% of their fuel be SAF (Sustainable aviation fuel) by 2030 and 100% by 2050. SAF is basically plant or animal fat oils (could be McDonald's cooking oil or soybean oil). Since it's not taken from underground and already on surface which would release CO2 anyways, it's better for environment. Oil and gas is underground so poses no risk where it is for Co2 emissions unless it's extracted. In addition, companies can use carbon capture and sequestration on the projects to even get more tax credits on SAF from the 45Z tax credit from Biden's IRA 2022.
2 small cap companies I know going into SAF plants are Aemetis and Lanzatech who are down a lot recently. They each have LOIs for offtake from major airlines for when they start producing SAF sometime around 2027/8. There's a few others.
These types of projects will all start to make headwinds by 2030 imo. Prob not before 2027-ish. I do extensive research in this industry. Want to give all a heads up that this will be a big industry by 2030.
At some point these will make a comeback. I don't know when. Could be 1 year, 3, 5, or 10 but they'll make a comeback. When do you expect it to? Tbh, now may be a good time to get back in.
I do believe the world will transition from oil and gas. Many companies pledge completely carbon neutral by 2050. Paris agreement in Europe says too. I don't think it's a question of will it happen or not, but when will it happen. I think by 2030 you will see a real large take off in the industry where significant market share becomes newer renewable energy methods other than solar/wind.
Also Europe is starting a tax on CO2 emissions beginning 2030, $300/metric ton for CO2 abaters like refineries, concrete producers. To put in perspective, a refinery can easily release 1 million metric tons of CO2 a year which means a $300 million plus penalty for them. It's much cheaper for them to capture CO2, pipeline it to a well, and inject. Prob something in the $50-75/MT range to do that having modeled these projects. Once that occurs, it'll change for them as that's extremely expensive compared to the Inflation Reduction Act of 2022 in the US that offers $85 per metric ton of CO2 sequestered. Europe is penalizing emitters in 2030 while US is offering tax credits for lowering emissions but under 1/3 what Europe is penalizing at for emitters.
I feel in next 5 years that these stocks will take off again.
Some companies to look at are Hydrogen projects. The IRA 2022 offers $3/kg of H2 for projects that emit less than 0.45 kg of CO2 per kg of H2. Hydrogen trades today around 90 cents a kg. That $3/kg tax credit can be profitable if done right and is over 3x what "grey" hydrogen costs on market today. Sustainable aviation fuel refiners is supposed to be another large industry. Valero is already building a SAF plant in Houston. Exxon is as well. BP is plannin to build 5 plants. There's opportunity to find a smaller company who does this and get a 10-bagger. Exxon, BP, Valero won't 10x increase due to massive size, but the small caps entering this can. Every airline has pledged to have 10% of their fuel be SAF (Sustainable aviation fuel) by 2030 and 100% by 2050. SAF is basically plant or animal fat oils (could be McDonald's cooking oil or soybean oil). Since it's not taken from underground and already on surface which would release CO2 anyways, it's better for environment. Oil and gas is underground so poses no risk where it is for Co2 emissions unless it's extracted. In addition, companies can use carbon capture and sequestration on the projects to even get more tax credits on SAF from the 45Z tax credit from Biden's IRA 2022.
2 small cap companies I know going into SAF plants are Aemetis and Lanzatech who are down a lot recently. They each have LOIs for offtake from major airlines for when they start producing SAF sometime around 2027/8. There's a few others.
These types of projects will all start to make headwinds by 2030 imo. Prob not before 2027-ish. I do extensive research in this industry. Want to give all a heads up that this will be a big industry by 2030.
This post was edited on 2/24/24 at 12:59 am
Posted on 2/24/24 at 6:02 am to Saunson69
If the democrats take both houses of congress this year and Biden wins re-election, they’ll almost certainly bend us over with this BS
Posted on 2/24/24 at 7:49 am to Saunson69
Dominion $D is supposedly well positioned in this transition. The stock was consistently around $70-$80 per share but has dropped to $40 range. I heard it was because they have invested a ton in renewables and when that investment starts paying for them the stock could move significantly.
Posted on 2/24/24 at 8:45 am to Saunson69
Most of these projects aren’t financially feasible profit wise and wouldn’t even be considered if not for govt pressure.
Basically the success of them as far as investment goes relies heavily on who is controlling Congress/Presidency and tax dollars being put towards these programs. If someone has breakthrough technology allowing renewables to be cheap, abundant and profitable it would be worth investing in.
There was a strong push towards this stuff a couple years ago but many companies are backing off of it because they’ve found it’s not financially feasible
Basically the success of them as far as investment goes relies heavily on who is controlling Congress/Presidency and tax dollars being put towards these programs. If someone has breakthrough technology allowing renewables to be cheap, abundant and profitable it would be worth investing in.
There was a strong push towards this stuff a couple years ago but many companies are backing off of it because they’ve found it’s not financially feasible
Posted on 2/24/24 at 3:51 pm to Saunson69
What do you think about Air Products and Linde? They are the two biggest hydrogen manufacturers in the world.
Posted on 2/24/24 at 4:02 pm to TigerTatorTots
Air products coming off a rough down trend. I like its dividend, net income and P/E even at 22+
Linde is at ATH. Dunno
Linde is at ATH. Dunno
This post was edited on 2/24/24 at 4:04 pm
Posted on 2/25/24 at 9:40 am to Saunson69
quote:
If you look at renewable companies, they took off in late 20 to mid 22.
Coming out of COVID lockdowns (Summer 2020), there were alot of "economists" writing off the oil & gas industry for good. COVID lockdowns had helped kill demand for fossil fuels in the US and abroad, and some folks were way too giddy at the prospect of such demand staying depressed from that point forward.
They were wrong. Very wrong, and as a result, renewed investment in fossil fuel projects once again makes sense for some investors and financial institutions.
I think you're seeing some of those dollars that moved away from fossil fuel energy coming out of COVID, with some of that going "all in" on renewable energy projects, starting to move back to oil & gas investments.
Posted on 2/26/24 at 12:21 pm to Saunson69
quote:
When do Renewables make a comeback?
When ZIRP makes a comeback
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News