- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- SEC Score Board
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Coaching Changes
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: Wall Street Journal - 100k not enough anymore for home ownership
Posted on 10/22/19 at 9:27 pm to cajungoalie
Posted on 10/22/19 at 9:27 pm to cajungoalie
quote:So because you (N = 1) were able to afford a modest home on a modest income 25 years has nothing to do with the ability for majority people to afford a home now.
That article is complete shite.
I mean home (3.98% annually) and rent prices have outpaced income (2.99% annually) considerably from 1994 to 2018 (most recent year available on St Louis Fed for income), even with the housing crash. So an $85,000 home was 3.15 times your $27,000 income, but using the averages above, that $85,000 home would be worth $216,750 and your $27,000 income would be worth $50,057. That same home would be 4.33 times that income in 2018.
Put another way, 4.33 times your $27,000 income would have been $116,913, nearly 38% or $32,000 more. So now all of a sudden your modest home is probably unaffordable on your modest income. Is that BS too?
In addition, the article states that a major issue is that student loan debt is a major barrier to home buying today. So there is much more going to that debt, which means that’s much less that’s able to go towards homes that are more expensive relative to income on top of that.
And personally, the biggest financial impediment before we bought our home wasn’t the student loan debt (which didn’t help), it was the childcare costs. We were paying $15,000 a year for daycare for one child, and that was on the cheaper end of the options. And those costs were rising rapidly, over $1,000 per year and our rent was increasing even more rapidly (in the 2nd hottest housing market) by over $1,600 let hear in that time. If it wasn’t for a major consulting project with a huge boost in income, I don’t know if when we would have been able to afford a home as each year requires more to save for a downpayment but rent/childcare increases were cutting into potential savings.
And while student loans were the least of those costs, $40,000 were going to those loans, rent, and childcare. And that’s more of the norm, if not lower than many others (multiple kids, more loans, higher rent), and we don’t make that much more than $100,000 so we’re probably a good representation of income and expenses that’s discussed in that article.
So if 30 to 50 percent of your $27,000 of your income was going to rent, childcare, and student loans, and your $85,000 home cost $117,000, then maybe your anecdote would at least be comparable and much more impressive. It still would be just an anecdote that disproves nothing regarding the large-sample of real data, but at least it would be impressive.
quote:And this only further shows your situation bears little resemblance to most people. A $170,000 home renting for $16,200 per year is a price to rent ratio of 10.5, which well below the average of over 18.5 in the 84 metros in this article. So if that’s representative of your area (especially if historically), owning a home is much more favorable financially than renting than most places. Only Cleveland, Toledo, Detroit, and Memphis have lower ratios, and those cities are not doing well financially at all and probably doesn’t have a large proportion of $100,000 income earners who are unable to afford a home.
25 years later, I still have that house, its paid for, is worth twice that and has been a rental for the past 20 years, making $1350/mo.
And in an average city, a placing renting for $1,350 per month, would have a price of $300,000. So again, if it was like that 25 years ago, buying $85,000 home would be more like $150,000 home in average city using those figures.
So it seems that things just worked out for you. You bought a home in a home buying market, when homes were much cheaper relative to income, and before education (and childcare) costs rose dramatically, leading to much higher student loan debt. And you were able to turn that into a rental in a place where rental income is significantly higher than costs compared to most places.
Good for you, and I’m sure you worked hard for it all, but your post doesn’t make it seem like you realize how much easier it was financially than those the article is referring to, many who probably are working just as hard as you did. There is nothing wrong with being proud of your own success and hard work (you should be), but maybe you should realize that your success relative to those in the article, also had a lot to do with things that are outside of anyone’s control, and not Jesus’s you were automatically superior to them.
Where to Buy: Price-to-Rent Ratio in 84 U.S. Cities
This post was edited on 10/22/19 at 10:09 pm
Posted on 10/22/19 at 10:06 pm to bayoubengals88
quote:
Bought" my first house making 38k/year
Depending on your age that could be well ahead of what most people were making at the time.
Posted on 10/22/19 at 10:29 pm to NYNolaguy1
quote:$27,000 income is roughly a little over $56,000 today, which is pretty good since he said he was just out of college. In addition, he bought a home at a time when prices were much less disproportionate to income, so that income went a lot further when buying home than today, not even including the costs that the article is referring to in its lede that have risen significantly, which he conveniently ignored (or didn’t even read in the OP).
Depending on your age that could be well ahead of what most people were making at the time.
And based on the information he provided about his home’s value and his rental income on it, he likely lives in a place where ownership is a far easier financial option than most places, and one’s income goes a lot further as well.
Now maybe his anecdote was meant to show the differences in the financial situation of the time and place compared to those in the article, which seem quite obvious, and much more ideal in case. But I interpreted as more of a comparison of himself to those in the article, as if they are somehow inferior on a personal level. If that’s the case, then I think he should know that their difficulties achieving his level of success has a lot to do with nothing in his or their control. Doesn’t take his success away, but it surely doesn’t make him somehow better because of it alone.
Posted on 10/22/19 at 10:35 pm to bayoubengals88
Oh for fricks sake. Just put $20k aside in the bank and buy a starter home. This is stupid.
I bought my first home for $135k when I was making 33k/yr.
I bought my first home for $135k when I was making 33k/yr.
This post was edited on 10/22/19 at 10:37 pm
Posted on 10/22/19 at 11:23 pm to CAD703X
quote:There is a severe shortage of starter homes in the United States, and an issues that has been talked about a lot over the last few years to anyone following along.
Oh for fricks sake. Just put $20k aside in the bank and buy a starter home. This is stupid.
quote:Well that’s probably an extreme outlier, then and now to be able to afford a home 4.1 times one’s income. And if someone can make it happen, their likely to be house poor. That’s equivalent to buying. $410,000 home with $100,000.
I bought my first home for $135k when I was making 33k/yr.
Putting that $20,000 downpayment on that home and having a historically low interest rate of 4%, would make the monthly payment $1862, which is already 22% debt to income. Add property taxes and insurance, and we’re already talking $2,500 to $3,000 a month in home expenses alone. It doesn’t take much more debt (cars, student loans, credit cards), and all of a sudden they will no longer meet the debt-to-income ratios required nowadays to get a loan.
But we can work this out a little more. Using my good friend lives near you in Nashville, and they just had their first child, their childcare costs for their one child is upwards of $18,000 a year, which is pretty common nowadays. And between health insurance premiums and student loans (they don’t have any luckily since his wife works for Dave and they bought into paying off debt), but even for an average family that brings childcare, medical expenses, and student loan payments up to $30,000 a year. And those could even be on the low end for many.
Then we have to add car expenses (even if no loans and just gas, insurance, and maintenance), home utilities, etc., and we’re adding at least $500 a month.
Now another $11,000 to $12,000 is probably going to income and payroll taxes, even without state and local taxes in Tennessee. So we’re up to over $77,000. Add $3,000 towards 401k (common marching percentage), $12,000 on groceries, household items, diapers, clothes, and another $750 in those high sales taxes in Tennessee and now we’re at $93,000.
So that leaves, and probably conservatively (no car loans; babies are always more expense than expected), and there is maybe $500-$600 per month remaining for any sort of unexpected expenses, and an IRA (or Roth) which can’t be maxed out. And not even a penny was spent on leisure and entertainment.
And that’s just with one kid. Another kid and we’re looking at $20,000+ in child care and other expenses. Plus vehicle size becomes and issue, so a new car is likely to needed unless they already had a big one. Now all of a sudden if one spouse makes considerably less than the other, a couple may consider one-income instead of paying $36,000 in child care.
So while I’m not completely sold that you actually afforded a $135,000 home on a $33,000 income alone without a second income or any help, especially when interest rates were much higher (and thus payments), you would be a major outlier. And as I noted earlier, home prices have significantly outpaced income over the last 20 to 30 years, income went a lot further towards a home.
This post was edited on 10/22/19 at 11:33 pm
Posted on 10/23/19 at 7:40 am to buckeye_vol
quote:
That’s equivalent to buying. $410,000 home with $100,000.
How about $850k house with $200k income? Assume 10% down.
Posted on 10/24/19 at 1:30 pm to TejasHorn
quote:
There is a price bubble though, with cheap money for the last 10 years and cash buyers (many foreign) driving prices up.
That and throw in hedge funds looking for return and MJ dispensaries looking to launder cash in jurisdictions where it is legal...
Posted on 10/24/19 at 1:46 pm to buckeye_vol
quote:
So while I’m not completely sold that you actually afforded a $135,000 home on a $33,000 income alone without a second income or any help, especially when interest rates were much higher (and thus payments), you would be a major outlier. And as I noted earlier, home prices have significantly outpaced income over the last 20 to 30 years, income went a lot further towards a home.
Here's a slightly different scenario at 3.5x
I paid 144k for a house after my first year of teaching where I made 42k. Base pay was 38,700 (only stayed there one year).
No down payment
Roommate paid roughly half of mortgage
Had a $260 car note for about two years
No student loans
Without the roommate it would have been difficult. I definitely wouldn't have been investing much.
Now, with a wife, we're pretty content with the extremely affordable mortgage and dual income.
Posted on 10/24/19 at 2:43 pm to CAD703X
quote:
Oh for fricks sake. Just put $20k aside in the bank and buy a starter home. This is stupid.
A starter home / condo / townhome in Chs will run you $300,000, easy. Putting $20,000 down at 4% will roughly get you a mortgage at $1,337 monthly excluding homeowners' insurance, taxes, and any fees. Estimating those combined expenses at $450, you're looking at $1,800 a month.
Still better than renting imo (which is what you would be paying in rent for a 2 or 3 bedroom in Chs). Rates are so cheap now.
This post was edited on 10/24/19 at 2:45 pm
Posted on 10/24/19 at 3:03 pm to CAD703X
This issue is people trying their damndest to live outside of their means. If you have to rent and live with a few friends for a few years in your 20’s to save some, do it. If you are even luckier to live rent free with parents for a year or two to pay off student loans, do it. There’s a multitude of ways to be able to save for a house if that’s the goal. On top of this, people seem hell bent on first time homes being upgraded in all facets. All you need is working materials and a safe home in hopefully a safe area. Those should be your original goals. You can always upgrade or sell later but the idea is a starter home has to be well below your bank approved max. Live a little more frugally in your early years and you can learn and set yourself up better financially long term. Roommates is a great way to fast track your finances but you can’t factor that into your home buying or else you could be in a bad place if you have no roommate for a while.
Posted on 10/25/19 at 9:57 am to MrJimBeam
quote:
On top of this, people seem hell bent on first time homes being upgraded in all facets. All you need is working materials and a safe home in hopefully a safe area. Those should be your original goals. You can always upgrade or sell later but the idea is a starter home has to be well below your bank approved max.
Jesus Christ.
No, people aren't hell bent on having a fully upgraded house. That's all that's available.
The starter home that people are describing in this thread is largely non-existent in many metro areas. There's ample evidence of this issue, yet people still seem to think that nothing in the real estate market has changed in the past 25-30 years.
Posted on 10/25/19 at 11:09 am to JohnnyKilroy
quote:
No, people aren't hell bent on having a fully upgraded house. That's all that's available.
This is how I feel about vehicles as well... all the new fancy bells and whistles you can get on loaded vehicles become standard a couple years down the road on the lower models and the price just keeps going up and up.
Popular
Back to top

0







