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re: The fundamental lie of Crypto.
Posted on 5/9/22 at 9:18 pm to cokebottleag
Posted on 5/9/22 at 9:18 pm to cokebottleag
quote:
We don’t have to speculate. In the Great Depression this happened. Gold became illegal to own in 1933 in an effort to protect the value of the USD. It’s probably better to use an active voice here: the federal government outlawed the ownership or trading of gold in 1933 to stop exactly the thing Bitcoin could be used for, at exactly the moment it could be used for such a thing.
There is nothing to stop the fed from doing the same with Bitcoin. The federal government will use force to back up the value of its currency. There exists no such backing for Bitcoin or any stable coin or other crypto.
fiat by definition has no intrinsic value. the only value it has is extrinic ie: other peoples perception of worth. tomorrow the saudis decide to not trade petro dollar, USD value plummets. there is no force the gov can implement to guarantee extrinsic value.
yea the great depression thing is a cool story and all but USD wasnt fiat until the 70s. the USD had intrinsic value backed by gold at that point so force could be used for influencing value. USD wasnt fiat in your example so a more apples to apples example would the gov banning global populations from losing belief in US currency, which is obviously moronic. but alas when the currency isnt backed by anything other than faith thats pretty much that.
weve already seen countries ban crypto, but guess what? it still exists and has value.
the cold hard fact is crpyto as well as fiat are only worth what people think they are worth.
I would agree with you more if you focused on money backed by something real, but you keep focusing on fiat which shares the same faults crypto does.
This post was edited on 5/9/22 at 9:37 pm
1
Posted on 5/9/22 at 9:18 pm to cokebottleag
You are making zero sense. You are the one who says btc is a lie. Burden of proof is on you to back your claim. BTC has 14 M coins available for 8 billion humans. Most who don't have access to western markets. You don't understand the tech or global markets. You may not like it and that is fine. But your OP is nothing more than a boomer complaining about shite he doesn't understand.
Posted on 5/9/22 at 9:30 pm to TomRollTideRitter
quote:
You instantly jump to trading crypto because, like me, that’s probably all you do with it. Therefore, you’re treating it like an equity/speculative asset.
Can you tell me what your mortgage is in Satoshi? How about your paycheck? Maybe you and a handful of people can, but I, and everyone I know who also trades Crypto, has no idea.
No one currently treats Crypto like a currency or even like an inflation hedge, and few even push to do so.
only because of an arbitrary determination that crypto is not fiat. Tomorrow the gov could decree it is fiat. they could decree soda can tabs=$2. they can put $2 into circulation or remove it. due to the fact that its fiat, the difference is entirely arbitrary, but the value is extrinsic.
my point was its equally as backed as fiat. its based off extrinsic perception, neither have intrinsic value.
the OPs 'fundamental lie' was that cryptos value is imaginary, people in the 21st century just invented a new asset.. my counterpoint was that describes fiat and it started about a millennia ago.
Posted on 5/9/22 at 9:50 pm to cokebottleag
quote:the future is not remotely similar to the way you perceive it
the AI instructor tells them of a period in the early 21st century when there was such an oversaturation of capital and nowhere to put
Posted on 5/9/22 at 9:52 pm to arcalades
quote:
the future is not remotely similar to the way you perceive it
true. The AI instructor would have began discussing the 10th century china when fiat was invented if they were discussing currencies based off of belief and without intrinsic value.
Posted on 5/9/22 at 9:58 pm to cokebottleag
quote:
If crypto had ever been serious about being a currency that could be useful, it would have pegged to gold or some current stable fiat currency. That would have allowed it to get some runway and adoption as a global means of exchange until it was ready to free float. None of the current crypto will ever be adopted as a currency, anywhere. It doesn’t behave like a currency because it isn’t one; the price tracks with other highly speculative equities, not currencies.
You exposed how clueless you are. There are cryptos pegged to all kinds of fiat and gold already.
Posted on 5/9/22 at 10:47 pm to AMS
quote:
no different than crypto both 'aren't real' and only exist because people believe they exist
Your understanding of the banking system is very misinformed. It’s a collateral based system that’s embedded into law.
Posted on 5/9/22 at 10:54 pm to wutangfinancial
quote:
Your understanding of the banking system is very misinformed. It’s a collateral based system that’s embedded into law.
by definition fiat has no intrinsic value, only extrinsic perception. private businesses, private citizens, sovereign nations have no obligation to the federal gov to accept or place any value on USD. its all voluntary agreement that its worth what its worth, same with crypto.
This post was edited on 5/9/22 at 11:00 pm
Posted on 5/9/22 at 11:04 pm to AMS
You have to transact in dollars to deal in global trade and dollar funding markets. You’re entirely missing the point of what I said.
Posted on 5/9/22 at 11:10 pm to wutangfinancial
We are so early in crypto! This thread is further proof of it.
There is crypto pegged to the dollar, gold, euro, etc.
There are entire networks like Ethereum or Solana that's the equivalent of the Apple App Store.
There are games and apps with in game currencies that are on the block chain.
Non crypto people are so ignorant of crypto that they don't even know about Ethereum and it's millions of real world uses.
WE ARE EARLY!
There is crypto pegged to the dollar, gold, euro, etc.
There are entire networks like Ethereum or Solana that's the equivalent of the Apple App Store.
There are games and apps with in game currencies that are on the block chain.
Non crypto people are so ignorant of crypto that they don't even know about Ethereum and it's millions of real world uses.
WE ARE EARLY!
Posted on 5/9/22 at 11:14 pm to wutangfinancial
quote:
You have to transact in dollars to deal in global trade and dollar funding markets. You’re entirely missing the point of what I said.
I dont miss your point at all, its just very misinformed. you are missing the fact that the only reason you CAN transact in dollars to deal in global trade and dollar funding markets is because they voluntarily agree that the USD is worth what its worth.
tomorrow countries around the world could decide to not trade with the USD and its value would plummet. this literally happened months ago to the russian ruble, the same could happen to the USD.
This post was edited on 5/9/22 at 11:19 pm
Posted on 5/10/22 at 12:37 am to cokebottleag
quote:
If crypto had ever been serious about being a currency that could be useful, it would have pegged to gold or some current stable fiat currency.
You still seem to be using bitcoin and crypto interchangeably. You’re way behind. Very little of the space is attempting to be a currency in the way bitcoin is.
Posted on 5/10/22 at 5:07 am to DeathValley85
This thread could be retitled "People who don't know that they don't know"
Take a look at some the apps on Solana's network.
Solana's Website
For every app on Solana, there are a 100 on Ethereum and a 1000 on Binance Smart Chain.
Non crypto people are oblivious. There are 300 video games alone on Solana's network with in game cryptocurrencies.
Take a look at some the apps on Solana's network.
Solana's Website
For every app on Solana, there are a 100 on Ethereum and a 1000 on Binance Smart Chain.
Non crypto people are oblivious. There are 300 video games alone on Solana's network with in game cryptocurrencies.
Posted on 5/10/22 at 5:38 am to AMS
quote:
the only value it has is extrinic ie: other peoples perception of worth. tomorrow the saudis decide to not trade petro dollar, USD value plummets. there is no force the gov can implement to guarantee extrinsic value.
Tomorrow the Saudis decide not to trade the Petrodollar, and the USA takes action to encourage them to reconsider, whether that is military or diplomatic.
The reason the dollar has the value it does is not because everyone just woke up yesterday and believes in it for no reason at all. That seems to be the argument against fiat. I’m not a fan of fiat currency, especially not of a fiat managed in the way the fed has done the last 20 years, but it is significantly different than crypto, or Bitcoin, or any of the other blockchain assets.
The fact that there is a government backing it through force of arms is important and carries a value that yes, is extrinsic. I think I said intrinsic before, because I hadn’t made a distinction between the two types.
Posted on 5/10/22 at 5:41 am to DeathValley85
quote:
You still seem to be using bitcoin and crypto interchangeably. You’re way behind. Very little of the space is attempting to be a currency in the way bitcoin is.
None of it is a currency. That’s my central point from the OP. It’s not even backed by the force of arms that fiat is. It’s equity in a speculative idea that generates no return unless others buy into the scheme.
I’m delighted in this thread because it is helping me refine my argument to be more effective.
Posted on 5/10/22 at 5:43 am to DallasTiger11
quote:
You exposed how clueless you are. There are cryptos pegged to all kinds of fiat and gold already.
I have now learned this and will refine my argument for the future to be more effective.
Posted on 5/10/22 at 6:05 am to cokebottleag
quote:
We don’t have to speculate. In the Great Depression this happened. Gold became illegal to own in 1933 in an effort to protect the value of the USD. It’s probably better to use an active voice here: the federal government outlawed the ownership or trading of gold in 1933 to stop exactly the thing Bitcoin could be used for, at exactly the moment it could be used for such a thing.
There is nothing to stop the fed from doing the same with Bitcoin. The federal government will use force to back up the value of its currency. There exists no such backing for Bitcoin or any stable coin or other crypto.
This is a bull case for a decentralized, permissionless store of value.
This post was edited on 5/10/22 at 6:13 am
Posted on 5/10/22 at 6:23 am to Hulkklogan
quote:
This is a bull case for a decentralized, permissionless store of value.
Bingo.
We have a forum chock full of conservatives yet they are against this and pro inflationary, central government controlled fiat currency.
Posted on 5/10/22 at 6:25 am to cokebottleag
quote:
None of it is a currency.
You keep saying this, but it's a terrible argument. I can go to a school fair and use tickets as a currency.
Posted on 5/10/22 at 7:05 am to cokebottleag
Crypto Bros are going to be in some dark times very soon. It is plummeting.
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