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Started By
Message
re: Small Biz - CPA
Posted on 1/24/25 at 3:31 pm to SwampCollie
Posted on 1/24/25 at 3:31 pm to SwampCollie
quote:
CPA is highly skilled and competent. The root issue is I'm not dealing with him until the staff runs into things they can't figure out. Which is more frequently occuring and slower resolution than I'd like.
Here is the issue you are going to run into.
You basically have three tyoes of firms.
1) One man band - he does all the work. He's probably not competent to do a return of that complexity, or he doesn't want to, because... multi state returns are A LOT OF grunt work and that's not a good use of his time.
2) Small / mid firm - The CPA is going to do very little, but they don't pay well, so the staff they hire isn't going to be competent to handle some complex things. Sounds like you are here.
3) Larger firm - You may not talk to the partner but for a few minutes each year. But there is generally managers and staff below him who have more experience and competence.
I don't do compliance anymore (thank goodness - I just consult) but I looked up our firm's fee schedule for new cliients. This is a larger firm - about 200 profesionals across several offices.
For what you have... you are looking at probably 25K, all in.
What drives the complexity is not the number of transactions or even the amount of the transactions... it is 100 percent the number of states. Every state does things a little different, so you need to have working knowlege of 7-8 different state tax systems, not to mention the practicality of differences in each state tax return.
quote:
Many states (like SC) retain a portion of the proceeds at closing anyway and refund/credit after filing.
That actually makes it harder.
1
Posted on 1/24/25 at 3:34 pm to baldona
quote:
EVERY SINGLE YEAR I've asked every single CPA to give me a list on how to improve me books for them. I've been through 3 CPAs.
I've yet to once get good feedback.
Are you asking them this on March 14th?
If you are asking them this in the summer / fall and they are not responsive, that's an issue for sure.
quote:
ETA: Do state returns require quarterly estimated tax payments? I have 0 experience with state returns, but that's anywhere from 15-20 returns as far as I can tell. It does seem like a lot of work.
Yes, unless they have withholding (which it sounds like OP is doing)
You also have the issue these days with PTE elections / tax payments with a number of states. This is something the OP should be doing, most likely, and if he's not... red flag to find another CPA... but there's more complexity and cost with that.
Posted on 1/24/25 at 4:05 pm to LSUFanHouston
Hijack alert
I’ve been a CPA in Texas for 20+ years now and approaching 50. Roughly 15 years as Controller for various industries, including a lot of smaller companies where I had to get closely involved with legal filings, commercial insurance, benefits, etc.
I’m starting to plan for working for myself as a business partner. Things like bookkeeping, Notary Services, indirect tax filings, QB certification, partnering with other insurance, benefits, and tax firms for stuff beyond my expertise. Also emergency support for situations when company Controllers suddenly depart.
Anyone have advice for me?
Also still evaluating if I should stick with the current path instead for final 15-20 years of career.
Also just read that CPA license most easily transfers to New Zealand, Australia, and Canada. My kids will soon be out of house and wife would consider something like New Zealand. Long shot bonus question but just in case anyone knows about opportunities in these countries. CPAs are continuing to drop in numbers so doing a mid career brainstorm.
I’ve been a CPA in Texas for 20+ years now and approaching 50. Roughly 15 years as Controller for various industries, including a lot of smaller companies where I had to get closely involved with legal filings, commercial insurance, benefits, etc.
I’m starting to plan for working for myself as a business partner. Things like bookkeeping, Notary Services, indirect tax filings, QB certification, partnering with other insurance, benefits, and tax firms for stuff beyond my expertise. Also emergency support for situations when company Controllers suddenly depart.
Anyone have advice for me?
Also still evaluating if I should stick with the current path instead for final 15-20 years of career.
Also just read that CPA license most easily transfers to New Zealand, Australia, and Canada. My kids will soon be out of house and wife would consider something like New Zealand. Long shot bonus question but just in case anyone knows about opportunities in these countries. CPAs are continuing to drop in numbers so doing a mid career brainstorm.
Posted on 1/24/25 at 5:27 pm to litenin
quote:
I’m starting to plan for working for myself as a business partner. Things like bookkeeping, Notary Services, indirect tax filings, QB certification, partnering with other insurance, benefits, and tax firms for stuff beyond my expertise. Also emergency support for situations when company Controllers suddenly depart.
If you like this kind of stuff more power to you, but from what I’ve seen you are walking into hornets nest after hornets nest with a gig like that, for one reason or another.
Either the former controller was incompetent, the owner is incompetent, the owner is an a-hole and can’t keep anybody around so he goes to the fractional CFO, etc, etc.
Seems like a lot of bullshite for not that great pay to me and you still have to eat what you kill
Posted on 1/24/25 at 7:23 pm to Mingo Was His NameO
quote:
I think we charge like $250 each. If he has 6 of them and he’s only paying $15k in total it makes a difference. They’re not preparing them so it doesn’t matter
You must be thinking of something else. I had 3rd party accounting company reach out and offer $6.50 per.
Posted on 1/24/25 at 8:19 pm to SwampCollie
quote:
“Not all that difficult” for a CPA =/= “easy” for me, dork.
I mean no need for name calling when you are looking for an answer that no one is giving you but you do you.
Don’t forget when it comes to professional services, you are paying for their experience that allows them to do what they do in a faster time than you.
But based on your responses, you are clearly one of those who can’t understand that concept.
Several other CPAs have responded in here and said the same thing, it’s your state returns that are killing you. So either figure out how to do them on your own, find a cheaper tax preparer who may not be familiar with the state issues or go to one of the big shops where you will likely pay double.
Whatever you decide, good luck. Clearly seems like you wanted people to tell you 15k was outrageous and you didn’t get it.
Posted on 1/24/25 at 9:14 pm to baldona
quote:
You must be thinking of something else. I had 3rd party accounting company reach out and offer $6.50 per.
Perhaps not. Most large firms don’t want to deal with 1099s.
Posted on 1/24/25 at 9:20 pm to litenin
quote:
I’m starting to plan for working for myself as a business partner. Things like bookkeeping, Notary Services, indirect tax filings, QB certification
All of this stuff is currently in a race to the cheap bottom. This is a pt of stuff that is being done overseas, via AI, or as giveaways / loss leaders.
With your background you need to look into part time / outsourced controller services. There’s lots and lots of businesses that need 10-15 hours a month or quarter for financial analysis and to review the work done by the cheap bookkeepers. Tax CPAs are increasingly unable to provide this due to lack of time.
Not every owner will see value here but a few will.
Posted on 1/24/25 at 9:39 pm to SwampCollie
Assuming your CPA is competent in his work, that fee is very fair for what you’re getting done.
We pay significantly more than this, albeit more filings and more detailed work.
I’ve found that you get what you pay for typically in this field. I’m sure there is a cheaper alternative; however, is it worth the long term consequences for short term savings?
We pay significantly more than this, albeit more filings and more detailed work.
I’ve found that you get what you pay for typically in this field. I’m sure there is a cheaper alternative; however, is it worth the long term consequences for short term savings?
Posted on 1/25/25 at 7:45 am to LSUFanHouston
quote:
You must be thinking of something else. I had 3rd party accounting company reach out and offer $6.50 per. Perhaps not. Most large firms don’t want to deal with 1099s.
Sure. But they are easy. It’s not like it’s difficult. I have about 60 to do a year and it takes me under 3 hours.
Furthermore, let’s not act like a CPA generally touches these. If you are a CPA doing something like a 1099 you are a very bad business person. There’s no reason to not have a book keeper or assistant that’s making $50k do this type of work.
On one hand you CPA guys are in here saying “it’s complicated so that’s why it’s expensive”, but then you are also saying “we don’t want to do it so we charge a lot”.
The problem is, there’s rarely a clear answer to us, your clients, to what we can do to help make it easier, what you don’t want to do, and what is actually difficult.
This post was edited on 1/25/25 at 7:47 am
Posted on 1/25/25 at 7:48 am to LSUFanHouston
quote:
EVERY SINGLE YEAR I've asked every single CPA to give me a list on how to improve me books for them. I've been through 3 CPAs. I've yet to once get good feedback.
Are you asking them this on March 14th? If you are asking them this in the summer / fall and they are not responsive, that's an issue for sure.
I have a yearly meeting in late October/ early Nov. I ask this every year. Very very little feedback.
Eta: I’ll tell you why I think it is. It’s because the CPA is not handling it, and they don’t want to admit that. They are having an assistant do the work which I don’t have an issue with. But even when I ask by email, I get no feedback. When I go to meet with my CPA there’s really nothing.
This post was edited on 1/25/25 at 7:51 am
Posted on 1/25/25 at 8:23 am to baldona
quote:
“it’s complicated so that’s why it’s expensive”, but then you are also saying “we don’t want to do it so we charge a lot”.
Yes, state returns are more difficult. Not because of anything you can do, just the nature of the state returns. You want the state and fed return to reconcile as well.
Different states call for different rules on depreciation, they all offer different credits or may not allow certain deductions. Don't forget they each have varying numbers of forms. They all have different filing thresholds based on income.
Florida has no personal income tax. Neither does Tennessee. But PTE that have a filing requirement in TN have to file a separate return as well. At one point part of the tax calc included a % of assets of the business.
The other thing regarding your books is your current CPA likely understands the way you do yours and doesn't necessarily feel like the time needed to get you to change your day to day bookkeeping operations will save you substantial amount of money.
For my clients who handle there own books, I'll recommend things to do if it will make the clients life easier (less work on their end in the long run and less time I need to bill them to clean up their stuff) . I'm not going to take the time to teach a plumbing client how to book his vehicle purchases throughout the year.
If you really want to get some feed back, tell him you want to pay for an hour of his/her time to get what you can do with your books. That signifies you know his time is valuable.
Posted on 1/25/25 at 9:45 am to horsesandbulls
quote:
If you really want to get some feed back, tell him you want to pay for an hour of his/her time to get what you can do with your books. That signifies you know his time is valuable.
An hour isn’t going to accomplish anything though, in my opinion. And clients aren’t going to want to pay $5k for advice on their books.
My advice: ignore Baldona, he’s a born on third base and thinks he hit a triple biz owner and is one of the dumbest posters on this site.
Posted on 1/25/25 at 10:27 am to LSUFanHouston
quote:
Most large firms don’t want to deal with 1099s.
This is why we need a simplified tax code or just a federal sales tax/tariffs. Why are taxes so complex we pay people $15-20,000 to do them for us and even CPAs don’t want to do 1099s?
Posted on 1/25/25 at 10:33 am to Drizzt
quote:
This is why we need a simplified tax code or just a federal sales tax/tariffs. Why are taxes so complex we pay people $15-20,000 to do them for us and even CPAs don’t want to do 1099s?
1099s is data entry, a 12 year old could do it. Which is why firms overcharge for it, they take time away from value added work.
They have nothing to do with the complexity of the tax code, and frankly, the individual tax code isn’t all that complicated
Posted on 1/25/25 at 1:06 pm to Mingo Was His NameO
quote:
An hour isn’t going to accomplish anything though, in my opinion. And clients aren’t going to want to pay $5k for advice on their books. My advice: ignore Baldona, he’s a born on third base and thinks he hit a triple biz owner and is one of the dumbest posters on this site.
My dad is retired Air Force and government employee and my
Mom a pre school director. They have had 0 to do with anything any of my career. But thanks for your ignorance.
Are you even in Public Tax accounting, I’m not sure why your opinion is valid here either.
The suggestion was to meet with his accountant to go over some things to make both of their lives easier. If the OP is paying $15k a year and his accountant can’t get anything done to help in an additional 1-2 hours, he really should look for someone else.
Posted on 1/25/25 at 1:11 pm to Mingo Was His NameO
quote:
1099s is data entry, a 12 year old could do it. Which is why firms overcharge for it, they take time away from value added work.
Every CPA firm I’ve walked into has more people working there that are non CPAs than CPAs between admins, book keepers, etc. They have all offered to do my 1099s for a fair rate. The $6.50 I quoted above was for a 3rd party book keeper I use. My CPA firm is around $10-15 each I think, I do my own so I can’t remember. But again it’s not a CPA doing those, it’s an assistant.
Posted on 1/25/25 at 1:51 pm to SwampCollie
quote:Just remember, you are not their only client. The competent CPA has delegated your return to a lower skilled accountant to do the data input, then he will review the return for any discrepancies.
CPA is highly skilled and competent. The root issue is I'm not dealing with him until the staff runs into things they can't figure out. Which is more frequently occurring and slower resolution than I'd like.
Its taking so long because you have a lot of moving parts. Apportionments on state returns add complexity that takes time. Determining basis is probably a head ache and time consuming.
Also, keep in mind, the firm you have been with for 5 years has a track record of each years activity and have been hands on with all your businesses for half a decade. A new CPA will be starting from scratch and may take longer to prepare and finalize.
Posted on 1/25/25 at 2:46 pm to baldona
quote:
Are you even in Public Tax accounting, I’m not sure why your opinion is valid here either.
Yes dumbass
Posted on 1/25/25 at 2:48 pm to baldona
quote:
Every CPA firm I’ve walked into has more people working there that are non CPAs than CPAs between admins, book keepers, etc. They have all offered to do my 1099s for a fair rate. The $6.50 I quoted above was for a 3rd party book keeper I use. My CPA firm is around $10-15 each I think, I do my own so I can’t remember. But again it’s not a CPA doing those, it’s an assistant.
Whether a staff person is a CPA or not, they have the same hourly rate. If I have to put a staff person on 1099s, who bills at $250/hour, I’m losing money because I can’t charge that for a 1099.
You don’t know the model, yet as usual, you have no problem opining on it
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