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Started By
Message
RYNVX
Posted on 2/7/20 at 7:39 am
Posted on 2/7/20 at 7:39 am
So I have never seen something like this but why have I never heard of an index fund like this brought up on this board, I feel like I'm missing something.
The objective, "The investment seeks to provide investment results that match, before fees and expenses, 150% of the performance of the S&P 500® Index on a daily basis."
On 1/31/2010 if you would have invested $10k in both this and a S&P fund as of 1/31/2020 you would have had the following
Approximately
$54k -RYNVX
$37k -S&P
145% higher returns.
So what is the catch? I can see that in a bear market this would probably fall a lot harder than an S&P but if your in it for the long haul it seems like it could be prudent.
The objective, "The investment seeks to provide investment results that match, before fees and expenses, 150% of the performance of the S&P 500® Index on a daily basis."
On 1/31/2010 if you would have invested $10k in both this and a S&P fund as of 1/31/2020 you would have had the following
Approximately
$54k -RYNVX
$37k -S&P
145% higher returns.
So what is the catch? I can see that in a bear market this would probably fall a lot harder than an S&P but if your in it for the long haul it seems like it could be prudent.
6
Posted on 2/7/20 at 7:40 am to CorkRockingham
quote:
So what is the catch?
quote:
150% of the performance of the S&P 500® Index on a daily basis."
Posted on 2/7/20 at 7:54 am to CorkRockingham
Pass
Posted on 2/7/20 at 8:03 am to CorkRockingham
quote:
provide investment results that match, before fees and expenses, 150% of the performance of the S&P
What are the fees and expenses?
Posted on 2/7/20 at 8:04 am to Janky
It has achieved its stated objective for 10 years. I'm looking for some dialog from knowledgeable people to help me understand why this type of fund wouldn't necessarily useful in a bull market.
Posted on 2/7/20 at 8:04 am to TheWiz
1.35% expense ratio, seems kind of high but given the returns seems acceptable.
This post was edited on 2/7/20 at 8:08 am
Posted on 2/7/20 at 8:18 am to CorkRockingham
It is a pretty inefficient fund. It has not generated the expected return based on the risk it has taken.
Posted on 2/7/20 at 9:07 am to Janky
quote:/end thread
It is a pretty inefficient fund. It has not generated the expected return based on the risk it has taken.
Posted on 2/7/20 at 9:15 am to Janky
how so though? it has delivered 145% higher returns than the S&P in a 10 year period.
I mean I would say that's pretty much meeting its stated goals.
are you just talking about that 5% missing or does this involve a multitude of factors to reach this conclusion?
I mean I would say that's pretty much meeting its stated goals.
are you just talking about that 5% missing or does this involve a multitude of factors to reach this conclusion?
Posted on 2/7/20 at 9:18 am to CorkRockingham
quote:
how so though?
5 year Beta= 1.51
5 year Alpha= -2.09
Posted on 2/7/20 at 9:29 am to CorkRockingham
Is it borrowing money and investing it?
Posted on 2/7/20 at 11:11 am to CorkRockingham
quote:
150% of the performance of the S&P 500® Index on a daily basis."
150% of the upside is possible.
...but 160% of the downside is too.
Posted on 2/7/20 at 11:13 am to Janky
Ah; this is a concept I’m not familiar with. Do you care to elaborate?
I will look it up myself if not.
I will look it up myself if not.
Posted on 2/7/20 at 11:18 am to CorkRockingham
Alpha is the return you are getting above and beyond the benchmark for the level of risk you are assuming. A negative alpha means you are not getting fairly compensated for your risk level.
Here is a good basic discription
Here is a good basic discription
This post was edited on 2/7/20 at 11:21 am
Posted on 2/7/20 at 12:25 pm to Janky
Thats awesome, I never knew any of that.
But I would say that it having a slightly negative alpha given its beta isn't such a bad thing since it's beta is 1.5 times the S&P 500 return.
Like sure it may not generate all of the returns it tries to but it does get close. You wouldn't think that small amount of risk is something that should be swallowed when seeking this type of return?
But I would say that it having a slightly negative alpha given its beta isn't such a bad thing since it's beta is 1.5 times the S&P 500 return.
Like sure it may not generate all of the returns it tries to but it does get close. You wouldn't think that small amount of risk is something that should be swallowed when seeking this type of return?
Posted on 2/7/20 at 12:38 pm to CorkRockingham
quote:How? I'd say without looking that 150% of the S&P "daily" since 2010 on this bull run should lead to a much higher % than what this has done.
Like sure it may not generate all of the returns it tries to but it does get close.
I'm not working today, but that's something could be calculated easily on excel after exporting the data.
Posted on 2/7/20 at 12:41 pm to castorinho
Yeah maybe I'm a little fuzzy on how that math works ha. I figured 145% over 10 years, but if it is 150% daily that is gonna start compounding. but it probably loses 150% of what the S&P does or more since it is higher risk so it all washes out maybe.
I don't know you would know better or be able to explain it better than me.
I don't know you would know better or be able to explain it better than me.
Posted on 2/7/20 at 2:05 pm to CorkRockingham
Let me actually compute it. We'll just remove all the caveats for this. This will be s straight 150% sp daily gain/loss. Dividends excluded too, because I'm too lazy.
10 year (literally, as in since Feb 6th 2010) return of the sp came up to 216%. And using the 150% daily, that comes up to 419.2%. So overall 165% percent more.
The return of the RYVNX, excluding fees, is 482% in that same time frame.
10 year (literally, as in since Feb 6th 2010) return of the sp came up to 216%. And using the 150% daily, that comes up to 419.2%. So overall 165% percent more.
The return of the RYVNX, excluding fees, is 482% in that same time frame.
This post was edited on 2/7/20 at 2:30 pm
Posted on 2/8/20 at 9:51 pm to castorinho
If you like RYNVX, try TECL. The investment seeks daily investment results, before fees and expenses, of 300% of the daily performance of the Technology Select Sector Index.
One Year Trailing Return 187.73%
One Year Trailing Return 187.73%
Posted on 2/8/20 at 9:55 pm to CorkRockingham
quote:
150% of the performance of the S&P 500® Index on a daily basis."
I think daily is the key. For some reason a lot of these funds now are not really subject to time decay, so I’m not sure what is going on
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