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Message
re: Retiring before 50
Posted on 6/13/23 at 3:19 pm to Big Scrub TX
Posted on 6/13/23 at 3:19 pm to Big Scrub TX
quote:
Not sure where you got that number
Because that’s a rough ballpark (with extremely conservative estimates used for taxes and assuming a 3% WR) of the amount of money you’d have at your disposal with a 10M portfolio at retirement.
quote:
What?
I mean how much you spend each month on actual stuff, living and bills etc.
1
Posted on 6/13/23 at 3:19 pm to SM1010
People that keep their minds active in retirement will do much better than those who try to treat it like never working again. Your brain is a muscle that needs to be flexed or you will lose it. Be prepared to keep yourself busy with a challenging hobby
Posted on 6/13/23 at 3:20 pm to oneg8rh8r
quote:
Retired at 44 from the military
Healthcare covered!
That’s the big expense.
Posted on 6/13/23 at 3:21 pm to Big Scrub TX
quote:
Then I pointed out the trend of high-net-worth older people rationally spending on exactly this. THEN you asked me what that had to do with private jet travel.
I’m just confused as to why it’s advisable to charter private jets in retirement, even as a high NW individual.
Private jets make financial sense in extremely limited circumstances. Taking a weekend trip to see the grandkids ain’t one of em lol. Much better uses for that money.
Posted on 6/13/23 at 3:26 pm to Big Scrub TX
quote:
I find it to be a rather un-controversial claim.
It’s a ridiculous claim that that’s the minimum needed to have a comfortable retirement.
You can have an outright lavish retirement at that level. You can live better than 95% or more of Americans on wayyyy less than that.
Posted on 6/13/23 at 3:26 pm to JohnnyKilroy
quote:Well, mid-pandemic when they had less commercial options, a whole new batch of old folks tried private...and once you go private, it's REALLY hard to go back.
I’m just confused as to why it’s advisable to charter private jets in retirement, even as a high NW individual.
Private jets make financial sense in extremely limited circumstances. Taking a weekend trip to see the grandkids ain’t one of em lol. Much better uses for that money.
Per the bolded, this is back to the hoard/thrift mentality. One's life is finite and there is such a thing as non-monetary utility.
Posted on 6/13/23 at 3:26 pm to JohnnyKilroy
I won't use a withdrawal rate. I'll be paid income based on how my investments perform. The key is having enough cash to ride the ups and downs. Financial advisors would never do this, and most people aren't willing to be significantly invested when retired. They put themselves in a box of trying not to lose money and draw it down as low as zero. That recipe will not achieve my goals or leave the legacy I want. Since I came from dirt, I'm prepared to live with the consequences if things don't turn out exactly as I hope. $10MM buys you a lot of leeway in that department, though.
In short, if I followed the advice of all the experts, I would never be in my current position. Educate yourself, know your risk tolerance, and do your own thinking (and investing).
In short, if I followed the advice of all the experts, I would never be in my current position. Educate yourself, know your risk tolerance, and do your own thinking (and investing).
Posted on 6/13/23 at 3:29 pm to JohnnyKilroy
Wheels Up is reasonable on a per person basis if you have enough passengers. Sure, I could fly Southwest (and do), but flying private makes some aspects of travel much more manageable. Ever fly with the elderly? Some things are worth paying for.
Posted on 6/13/23 at 3:31 pm to Big Scrub TX
quote:
Well, mid-pandemic when they had less commercial options, a whole new batch of old folks tried private...
An extremely rare event that lasted a short amount of time (flights getting cancelled the first couple months)
That’s the impetus for budgeting an extra million to air travel alone? Lol.
quote:
and once you go private, it's REALLY hard to go back.
Well that’s tough because you are only budgeting for 28 plane trips for the rest of your life if it’s private or nothing.
That’s not gonna be enough for me if I’m retiring young.
Posted on 6/13/23 at 3:34 pm to RoyalWe
quote:
I won't use a withdrawal rate. I'll be paid income based on how my investments perform
That’s fine. I was just using an extremely conservative basis for my 20k per month number. You’d likely be able to spend much more than that on a variable withdraw plan.
Posted on 6/13/23 at 3:41 pm to RoyalWe
quote:
Wheels Up is reasonable on a per person basis if you have enough passengers
Yea and your initiation fee and annual dues will go poof once they go bankrupt in the next year or two.
Not to mention services like wheels up aren’t the type of private jet where you step on the plan and say go here. There are predetermined routes they use.
Posted on 6/13/23 at 3:51 pm to JohnnyKilroy
quote:Yes. Just like Zoom and WFH were fairly non-mainstream avenues until the forcing function of the pandemic turned them into much bigger fractions of our work lives, likely forever.
An extremely rare event that lasted a short amount of time (flights getting cancelled the first couple months)
That’s the impetus for budgeting an extra million to air travel alone? Lol.
quote:I know you wanna argue just to argue, but I know you know what I mean. Why not address the substantive, monetary example I gave - spending 1 of 15 million dollars on such? That doesn't seem even mildly controversial or irrational to me.
Well that’s tough because you are only budgeting for 28 plane trips for the rest of your life if it’s private or nothing.
Oh, and speaking of "extremely rare events", I mentioned contingencies in my 10 million figure. Most people factor in WAY less left tail events than they are likely to suffer.
Posted on 6/13/23 at 3:57 pm to JohnnyKilroy
quote:No, it isn't. Starting at 50, I would not ever believe I had suitably planned for a "comfortable" 30+ years if I had less than that.
It’s a ridiculous claim that that’s the minimum needed to have a comfortable retirement.
And I'll put some parameters on it: if one spends more than ZERO seconds of their remaining life (in this age 50 retirement scenario) thinking about or otherwise worrying and/or having consternation over fuel prices, then they aren't "comfortably retired".
I don't think a lot of folks realize how the continual micro-stress of such nonsense is dragging on their health and longevity.
Same thing goes for the types starting threads on the OT about tipping and the like. Here's my rule of thumb: any bill $50 or under, I leave 100%. Above that, never less than 35%. Hotel maids - never less than $20/night. Any time I have any reason whatsoever to leave a gratuity or otherwise contribute to such, I happily leave a lot and never think about it again. I believe this contributes MUCH more to my health and longevity than doing calculations and wondering if I got screwed or not and/or worrying if I have enough money to cover all this.
And I want to be able to do that every minute of my life, retired or not retired.
Posted on 6/13/23 at 4:05 pm to Big Scrub TX
quote:
I know you wanna argue just to argue, but I know you know what I mean.
No I truly don’t know what you mean. Your argument is that high NW individuals should consider flying private. That is an extreme cost increase over the alternative.
I could understand if flying private was like double, maybe even triple, the cost of commercial but it’s not even close to that. More like 30x or 40x. A private charter from NY to europe is gonna be 150k or more for round trip.
This post was edited on 6/13/23 at 4:24 pm
Posted on 6/13/23 at 4:11 pm to Big Scrub TX
quote:
And I'll put some parameters on it: if one spends more than ZERO seconds of their remaining life (in this age 50 retirement scenario) thinking about or otherwise worrying and/or having consternation over fuel prices, then they aren't "comfortably retired".
You need a 10 million portfolio to stop thinking about gas prices? Lmao.
quote:
Starting at 50, I would not ever believe I had suitably planned for a "comfortable" 30+ years if I had less than that.
Again, to each there own. I think I could make due and live comfortably forever with a 14-16k per month spend. Maybe you need more than that.
Posted on 6/13/23 at 4:31 pm to JohnnyKilroy
quote:
Yea and your initiation fee and annual dues will go poof once they go bankrupt in the next year or two.
Not to mention services like wheels up aren’t the type of private jet where you step on the plan and say go here. There are predetermined routes they use.
I didn't pay to become a member because I'm a member of another service that gives me free membership. Also, there are bespoke options. Having said that, someone with $10MM liquid has probably done the value proposition analysis. Here's the thing: They use their personal criteria for that analysis.
Posted on 6/13/23 at 4:52 pm to baldona
quote:
Damn boomers started this dumb idea of "retirement" where you work your arse off for 40 years for the same company doing boring work and then one day just stop completely.
Boomers started that?
Posted on 6/13/23 at 5:03 pm to dragginass
quote:
There are ways to access funds without penalty. SEPP from a 401k, and from ROTH IRA you can withdraw contributions that are 5+ years old. That's my simplistic plan, but there are other ways as well.
Let's say he contributes Max to his IRA from mid 30s to 50. That is only 10 years worth of contributions that could be penalty free(age 35-45). That's less than $100k at 50 years old that would be penalty free. That'll be barely be enough for a years worth of utilities, medical bills/premiums and groceries in 20 years.
Posted on 6/13/23 at 5:42 pm to SM1010
quote:
Anyone here done it? Any tips of so? It is my dream. Or semi-retire (work 2 to 3 days a week) at least anyway. Everything is paid off, no kids, in mid 30s. I'm extremely frugal. Wife (no pics) not so much. I'm thinking if I can save like 60% of my income over the next 10 years I can get this done. Just gotta keep the wifey motivated to continue saving. Trying to convince her to move her 401k contribution up to 15% since we just paid off the house.
I just turned 50 and never went back to work after covid shutdowns.
Started daytrading and am making it so far.
Posted on 6/13/23 at 6:35 pm to JohnnyKilroy
quote:Fuel prices are an obvious example of the 50 things people needlessly worry about.
You need a 10 million portfolio to stop thinking about gas prices? Lmao.
quote:So what denominator does that imply for you?
Again, to each there own. I think I could make due and live comfortably forever with a 14-16k per month spend. Maybe you need more than that.
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