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re: REIT's

Posted on 2/3/11 at 6:14 pm to
Posted by tirebiter
7K R&G chile land aka SF
Member since Oct 2006
10995 posts
Posted on 2/3/11 at 6:14 pm to
quote:

Your article quotes CMG. They are terrible outfit. They are like the people that pay structured settlement cases $.10 on the dollar. They buy shares at dirt cheap prices to reap the profits later when they full cycle. If REITS are so bad then why do they want to buy the shares?


Because they are knowledgeable about the underlying assets and are at a very low margin of error at those prices. If the sponsor ceases redemptions where do the investors go to liquidate otherwise? Another retail investor stuck in the same investment?

Your comment on VNQ and my supposed pumping of it, that is not what I did. I suggested it as a low cost, liquid alternative. I am not even sure you understand correlation of asset classes and change thereof over time. I would not add nontraded REITs to supposedly diversify my portfolio based on many things, like high commissions, lack of transparency of asset valuations and FFO which become more volatile, very illiquid when risk escalates which is when one desires diversification of supposed non-correlated assets if cash needs to be raised, dividends can be dropped, etc.

Why are nontraded REITs even considered an alternative investment in your nomenclature, it's commercial RE which is correlated with general public equity in the event of financial and economic shocks/recessions. People can either recognize it for what it is or not.

I made a lot of money in REITs in 2000-2006. I know full well what they are. David Swenson of Yale would strongly advise against retail investors buying nontraded REITs, it is what it is, you can believe what you want, he is a lot better investor than I am.

Read the entire article, not just the excerpts.

I recently analyzed a relative's holdings in a full service account with a national broker. 2.3% annual costs based upon high cost mutual funds and a wrap/advisory fee, what a load of shite. Giving away at minimum 200 bps for some yahoo to "manage" the account. The effect on long term returns is crippling, and am totally unimpressed with the industry that sponsors ripping people off. I feel sorry for people that have to use advisors, just as I feel sorry for people stuck in high cost crappy 401k/403b plans.

Why wouldn't Cole have provided a low cost liquid option before? I doubt the reason now is because they are being generous. Is the industry being forced into this due to legal and other issues?
This post was edited on 2/3/11 at 6:17 pm
Posted by saint308
LA
Member since Oct 2010
496 posts
Posted on 2/3/11 at 6:30 pm to
Well I apologize. I did not know I was having a discussion with Gordon Gekko himself. I am glad you have to feel sorry for people that seek advice. Not all are so gifted as you and ask for help. You are the best ever. I was wrong, you were right. You are skinny, I am fat. You are pretty, I am ugly. There you win. I am out.
Posted by tirebiter
7K R&G chile land aka SF
Member since Oct 2006
10995 posts
Posted on 2/3/11 at 7:22 pm to
It's not personal, nor am I GG, but I may be above average.

There is an inherent conflict of interest between the financial industry and those that need help the most. I just take it for what it is.
Posted by kfizzle85
Member since Dec 2005
22022 posts
Posted on 2/3/11 at 9:57 pm to
That's what you get for being competent. a-hole.
Posted by saint308
LA
Member since Oct 2010
496 posts
Posted on 2/4/11 at 8:50 am to
quote:

REIT's


That's what you get for being competent.


Never questioned his competency. He is obviously a very competent human being. We have a difference of opinion thats all. I do my best not to get into these internet arguments, that is why I quit. I probably could have done better than my last post, but I think my evening potion had gotten to me by then. All I am saying is these alternative investments have a place and time, "in my opinion."
Posted by tirebiter
7K R&G chile land aka SF
Member since Oct 2006
10995 posts
Posted on 2/4/11 at 9:06 am to
quote:

That's what you get for being competent. a-hole.


I see what you did there, asswipe.
Posted by bbvdd
Memphis, TN
Member since Jun 2009
28755 posts
Posted on 2/4/11 at 2:32 pm to
There are a couple of different kinds or REIT:

ARR invest in MBS paper. I'm familiar with them and not a fan. They're ~7 times levered on new money.

As long as the Treasury curve is steep MBS REITs will be a good investment (unless they're stupid)

You have to be careful as the curve flattens. Their borrowing cost will be much closer to their investment yields.

One REIT with really good mgmt team is AGNC. Paying 19+% dividend right now.
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