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re: Official CryptoTalk Thread
Posted on 11/13/22 at 8:28 pm to BottomlandBrew
Posted on 11/13/22 at 8:28 pm to BottomlandBrew
quote:
You're valid in your concern, just not in the mechanics of how it happens. AWS can "censor" their eth validators right now. Doesn't matter. They're just not online anymore. Amazon doesn't control the validators. They just power them.
The censorship comes from the validator itself. I could tell my validator to not validate Eth tainted by Tornado Cash. That has no effect on the network as I'm just small potatoes. Now, let's say Lido directs their validators to not validate TC-tainted eth. That's a much bigger issue, and I think the one you are really talking about. If both Lido and Coinbase decide to do it, and they control 66% percent of the validators, that's a massive thing, and any ETH person who denies that has their head in the sand.
you running an individual validator may be small potatoes but aws with a majority of validators shutting off large noncompliant validators would not be small potatoes. Lido and coinbase are another layer of vulnerability both subject to US regs. I was using aws because it seemed simpler to communicate, but yes the concern runs deeper.
even if you did have non-US validators the network is pretty much US jurisdiction. gov can more easily seize tainted transactions. im not trying to say the gov/aws directly has 100% control of the network, they just have extreme influence in its operations and can effectively regulate the network accordingly. you dont have to shut the network down perse just make the juice not worth the squeeze.
1
Posted on 11/13/22 at 8:50 pm to CarRamrod
quote:
I didn't ignore it.....I just started comparing apples to apples.
I used apples to apples. inception to inception btc appreciated more. You used apples to oranges after btc had appreciated significantly for comparison.
quote:
as me and others have disproved your logic as everything is beholden to the government, and also everything has a way around it. But the only thing keeping the big miners and the hif validators doing their thing, is value in what they are doing ...that value goes away, so do they.
...wut? thats not true at all lmao. BTC isnt beholden to the gov nor an amount of less than 4 companies, where ETH network effectively is. as myself and other posters have supported this, disproving your logic.
given that fact ETH validators are much more vulnerable to losing value due to regs than BTC.
quote:
But let's back up. We both feel the value is there. So we are arguing what has the best value. And your argument of an asset that is 13 6eara old at the top of it's S-curve, which basically has to be traded on a centralized exchanges, which has nothing else on its network, is better than something that is pretty much opposite?
yes lets back up... you suggested ETH would overtake BTC "cars overtaking horses" and that the flippening would happen because some nonsense about the same/more money would be needed for btc to double when eth would need the same/more money for a flippening... but now have moved goalposts to current value investment.
well historically BTC has been objectively more valuable so far (unless you want to use apples to oranges comparisons). it doesnt have to be traded on centralized exchanges like you believe and has been/remained king without anything on its network despite that that seems to be in your opinion a problem.
however you feel about the S-curve is just an opinion to be determined by the future so i dont really find it highly relevant as its not objectively supported by anything.
This post was edited on 11/13/22 at 8:57 pm
Posted on 11/13/22 at 9:15 pm to AMS
You're on the right track, and I agree with the concept of your argument, but we need to tighten up some of the technical components of your argument.
Let's say we have 100 total validators. 50 of those run on AWS. Biden can tell Bezos to pull the plug on those nodes. Whatever. The remaining 50 validators not on AWS keep chugging away and making more in rewards while those who hosted on AWS get slashed by the network until they relocate somewhere else. Just like what happened when China banned bitcoin this last time. Could that cause some hiccups on the network? Yeah, but the hiccups are temporary, imo, just like we saw with the hashrate from the China thing.
The feds can only stop AWS from hosting. They can't control what transactions are processed on the network other than applying regulatory pressure - which they are currently doing with the OFAC ruling, and they can't seize the eth on the AWS servers. They can make it difficult to use, but they can't take it.
Is centralization under PoS a threat? For sure. Even more so with delegated PoS like Lido and Coinbase. That said, my feeling is the community is smart enough to keep the juice worth the squeeze. Bitcoin has had it's own issue with centralization, and the community averted that before it could happen. It's just growing pains on a network.
Healthy discussion like you and I are having is what keeps it at the forefront of our minds. It's when we stop talking about it that malicious entities could take control.
Let's say we have 100 total validators. 50 of those run on AWS. Biden can tell Bezos to pull the plug on those nodes. Whatever. The remaining 50 validators not on AWS keep chugging away and making more in rewards while those who hosted on AWS get slashed by the network until they relocate somewhere else. Just like what happened when China banned bitcoin this last time. Could that cause some hiccups on the network? Yeah, but the hiccups are temporary, imo, just like we saw with the hashrate from the China thing.
The feds can only stop AWS from hosting. They can't control what transactions are processed on the network other than applying regulatory pressure - which they are currently doing with the OFAC ruling, and they can't seize the eth on the AWS servers. They can make it difficult to use, but they can't take it.
Is centralization under PoS a threat? For sure. Even more so with delegated PoS like Lido and Coinbase. That said, my feeling is the community is smart enough to keep the juice worth the squeeze. Bitcoin has had it's own issue with centralization, and the community averted that before it could happen. It's just growing pains on a network.
Healthy discussion like you and I are having is what keeps it at the forefront of our minds. It's when we stop talking about it that malicious entities could take control.
Posted on 11/13/22 at 9:19 pm to BottomlandBrew
On another subject, any new news about FTX today? Seems like new stuff coming out every few hours, but I haven't ventured over to crypto twitter today to find out.
Posted on 11/13/22 at 9:32 pm to BottomlandBrew
Essentially the main thing is get everything you have on exchanges off. Now. The contagion and insolvency risk if unknown in many, many cases.
No time to wait
No time to wait
Posted on 11/13/22 at 9:53 pm to AMS
quote:
however you feel about the S-curve is just an opinion to be determined by the future so i dont really find it highly relevant as its not objectively supported by anything.
Diminishing returns. You can see it in the chart. Btc had horrible gains compared to most crypto’s (even the ones that are still around) much less eth.
This post was edited on 11/13/22 at 10:00 pm
Posted on 11/13/22 at 10:01 pm to AMS
quote:lol what does that even mean?
inception to inception
Posted on 11/14/22 at 10:07 am to BottomlandBrew
quote:
They can make it difficult to use, but they can't take it.
This is what I think is needs to be understood - the staking is not "on the server". Amazon can't take away that ETH. It's in a smart contract on-chain. Server gets taken down? Spin up another somewhere else, restore wallet, good to go.
Posted on 11/14/22 at 10:14 am to AMS
quote:
inception to inception btc appreciated more.
Well yeah. But no one here is buying at inception.
Eth will outperform btc next bullrun again. Just like this one.
This post was edited on 11/14/22 at 10:25 am
Posted on 11/14/22 at 10:34 am to Hulkklogan
quote:its funny some people here ague that point for BTC but fail to see its the same thing for Eth.
This is what I think is needs to be understood - the staking is not "on the server". Amazon can't take away that ETH. It's in a smart contract on-chain. Server gets taken down? Spin up another somewhere else, restore wallet, good to go.
Posted on 11/14/22 at 10:46 am to BottomlandBrew
quote:
On another subject, any new news about FTX today?
Sir, he tweeted again:
Posted on 11/14/22 at 12:13 pm to Ronaldo Burgundiaz
Well he now added a P (looks like he might be going for “what happened”).
Posted on 11/14/22 at 12:54 pm to Ronaldo Burgundiaz
SBF going through meth withdrawals?
Posted on 11/14/22 at 12:55 pm to BottomlandBrew
quote:Nobody with his level of body fat percentage goes through meth withdrawals.
SBF going through meth withdrawals?
Posted on 11/14/22 at 1:42 pm to buckeye_vol
frick IT'S SUCH GOOD DRAMA WHAT IS HE GOING TO DO NEXT
This post was edited on 11/14/22 at 1:44 pm
Posted on 11/14/22 at 2:24 pm to Hulkklogan
FOIA requests sent for all meetings between gensler and FTX team
Posted on 11/14/22 at 2:27 pm to TigerDeBaiter
quote:Oh frick yea - I need to not get my hopes up because if there is shenanigans nothing will come of it
FOIA requests sent for all meetings between gensler and FTX team
Posted on 11/14/22 at 2:54 pm to TigerDeBaiter
quote:
FOIA requests sent for all meetings between gensler and FTX team
WOULD LOVE TO SEE THIS
Posted on 11/14/22 at 5:23 pm to boomtown143
Posted on 11/14/22 at 5:53 pm to boomtown143
quote:
WOULD LOVE TO SEE THIS
Unredacted.
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