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re: Jury Finds Realtors Conspired to Keep Commissions High, Awards Nearly $1.8 Billion Damages

Posted on 10/31/23 at 8:31 pm to
Posted by JohnnyKilroy
Cajun Navy Vice Admiral
Member since Oct 2012
41087 posts
Posted on 10/31/23 at 8:31 pm to
quote:

Its 100 times the work


Doing what? Listing properties on MLS and chauffeuring housewives around? Oh they spent 20 minutes researching comps? An honest day's work if there ever was one.

I know plenty of residential realtors who work in the seven figure range. They were bored housewives who needed something to do after the kids went off to college.


quote:

Imagine comparing an LOI to that



No shite.

That was my whole point lol. I deal with 8 figure deals and the brokers usually have to bow out after the LOI stage because they no longer provide any value.

Your dumbass contention was that high dollar properties require extra care and handling from an agent/broker. Once they link up the buyers and the sellers, their value add to the transaction is pretty much gone. At best they serve as calendar reminders for critical dates. frick 90% of the time they can't even be fricking bothered with that and will just let their client, who the owe a fiduciary duty to, just have their money go hard without so much as a peep.

Half drop out of the process after LOI stage and of the remaining half probably 75% drop out upon PSA execution. Only a tiny percentage actually seem to understand that it wouldn't kill them to keep up with the transaction all the way through close where they will collect their six figure commission for ~20 hours of effort.


Paint me a picture that shows a 300k value add by a buyer's broker on a 10M deal.
This post was edited on 10/31/23 at 8:38 pm
Posted by thunderbird1100
GSU Eagles fan
Member since Oct 2007
72314 posts
Posted on 11/1/23 at 8:32 am to
quote:

Imagine thinking selling a 200k home that everyone can qual for vs million dollar home with limited qual borrowers. Then the difference in clientele alone is not harder or more work



Your comparison has a lot things missing here.

First off, million dollar homes are not some ridiculous out of reach thing for a lot of urban/suburban parts of the country now. Maybe if you said $5M homes which is way more exclusive and a much smaller base, but hell, million dollar homes are basically run of the mill in some city areas.

Second off, for a $200k home where I am, you're going to probably have to deal with more than a handful of people who cant get financing and go through that process where things "fall through" way more often than on say a $1M home. While there's more people willing to buy $200k homes, there's also a ton more people who ultimately fall through there because they cant secure their financing. For $1M homes the buyer market is less, but guess what, so is the supply and you probably dont have to deal with near as many bad buyers there as you do in a $200k market.

There's positives and negatives to each but you could easily argue the $200k home might end up taking way more actual work to sell than the $1M home in many cases especially if you have to sift through the "bad" buyers.
This post was edited on 11/1/23 at 8:33 am
Posted by llfshoals
Member since Nov 2010
20916 posts
Posted on 11/1/23 at 7:59 pm to
quote:

Good realtors are worth it. Most aren't good. You may be the exception, so I'm not potentially bashing you, but echoing what you say.
Im used to it. There are so many bad ones it’s far safer to assume they all are until proven differently.
Posted by Big Scrub TX
Member since Dec 2013
39853 posts
Posted on 11/2/23 at 12:06 am to
quote:

There's positives and negatives to each but you could easily argue the $200k home might end up taking way more actual work to sell than the $1M home in many cases especially if you have to sift through the "bad" buyers.


What's more, agents always act as if market conditions are irrelevant. e.g. If there's limited inventory, and the market is "hot", I would argue that necessarily radically devalues both agents sides:

listing agent: not hard at all to attract buyers, no way this is worth 3% (again, I haven't paid more than 1% for a home sale in over 20 years)

selling agent: barely any houses to look at and buyers are hot to trot. What's the value-add again?
Posted by llfshoals
Member since Nov 2010
20916 posts
Posted on 11/2/23 at 12:38 am to
quote:

What's more, agents always act as if market conditions are irrelevant.
No they don’t. We get it, can you show us on the doll where the realtor touched you.

quote:

selling agent: barely any houses to look at and buyers are hot to trot. What's the value-add again?
Well let’s see.

Being ahead of other buyers on the actual good properties? When time is a premium you don’t want to waste it going to see a house that looks good in photos but I know has foundation issues.

Lender contacts, inspectors, service providers, repair and/or renovation contractors. Yes you can spend a month looking those up, reading reviews, etc. I know you won’t do it, you know you won’t. I’ve developed a list over years of good ones.

Most buyers have zero, and I mean literally no clue what to look for in a house. I average showing 500 properties a year, and before we leave they know approximately where the property lines are, and any major issues I see with the property or any potential problems. Since I designed everything I built when I ran a construction company I have a pretty fair idea what they are when I see them. Not to mention we discuss extensively what they want in a house and why.

There’s a pretty lengthy list of value good realtors add. All of them save clients time, which is the most valuable thing any of us have.
Posted by TJG210
New Orleans
Member since Aug 2006
29422 posts
Posted on 11/2/23 at 1:27 am to
quote:

their few hours of work showing the house and signing pape


If only some clients picked the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 15th houses they looked at…

What about deals where they completely fall through and no pay is coming at all even though several hours of work was put in?
Posted by TJG210
New Orleans
Member since Aug 2006
29422 posts
Posted on 11/2/23 at 1:31 am to
quote:

anything, the 200k home probably requires a lot more work to match up a buyer and a seller.


That doesn’t make sense….there are exponentially fewer buyers who can afford a million dollar house vs a $200k one.
Posted by Neauxla_Tiger
Member since Feb 2015
2108 posts
Posted on 11/2/23 at 6:57 am to
I think his point there was simply that, while the million dollar homes have a smaller pool of potential buyers, those buyers will typically have lots of cash, great credit, no tax liens and other garbage that need to be cleaned up, etc.

The 200k homes have a bigger pool, but poorer clientele that have issues getting qualified for financing, and other issues that make the deal fall apart. These are the buyers where all it takes is HOI coming in $1,000 higher than estimated and they can't make it work.

So typically, a higher priced home might take longer to find a match, but when you do, it's usually smooth sailing (as far as financing, ability to withstand little surprises, etc.)
Posted by Bazzatcha
Member since May 2017
973 posts
Posted on 11/2/23 at 7:16 am to
quote:

You think its the same amount of work between those 2 price points?


If a realtor is doing their job, yes. A house is a house and the same steps should be taken to sell a house regardless of the actual value of the house (not list price). If priced properly, the house will sell timely and the cost associated to do that will be minimal.

The main reason a realtor would have to do more work is generally self inflicted due to the list price being way to high and greed. Realtors and sellers both understand that listing the house for top dollar will take more time to move and will require more showings, open houses, staging, etc. Generally the 200k houses do not have wildly varrying comps and price adjustments aren't near as big as 1M listings so the opportunity to be greedy is less.

Bottom line is, you either price a house to sell or you price a house to eventually sell at a reduced price, hoping that the time spent to get the extra bucks was worth cost of open houses / showings / double mortgages / rent / or delay to move on to the next one. Also, its not the sellers fault for thinking their house is worth way more than it is and demanding the realtor list the house at what they think it should be or what they need it to be because the realtor has a choice to take on the client or not. If they are a true realtor, they will talk reasonable expectations with the seller and if the seller disagrees, the realtor will walk away. Unfortunately there are too many bad realtors out there who will say and do anything to get a client in hopes of cashing in big.
Posted by Strannix
C.S.A.
Member since Dec 2012
53720 posts
Posted on 11/2/23 at 7:32 am to
I have sold two homes FSBO where the buyer insisted on employing a buyers agent, people are so dumb.

I said thats fine its coming out of your end not mine.
Posted by Grinder
Member since Nov 2007
2685 posts
Posted on 11/2/23 at 7:49 am to
quote:

our’ buyers agent just loved every house and spoke of all the positives of each one. No matter if it fit our actual needs or not. She wanted me to buy and buy soon.


This is why I hate realtors. Almost everyone I’ve worked with is a useless liar.

When I sold my lake house, there was no realtor involved, despite many contacting me about how I was crazy to proceed without a realtor. I was happy to pocket that extra $60K. Screw’em.
Posted by TJG210
New Orleans
Member since Aug 2006
29422 posts
Posted on 11/2/23 at 3:44 pm to
quote:

while the million dollar homes have a smaller pool of potential buyers, those buyers will typically have lots of cash, great credit, no tax liens and other garbage that need to be cleaned up, etc


Y’all operate in a fantasy world
Posted by Neauxla_Tiger
Member since Feb 2015
2108 posts
Posted on 11/2/23 at 4:31 pm to
quote:

Y’all operate in a fantasy world


Huh? What's inaccurate about what I said?

A buyer that can afford $1,000,000 is going to be better off financially than a buyer that can only afford $200,000. How is that fantasy?
Posted by TJG210
New Orleans
Member since Aug 2006
29422 posts
Posted on 11/2/23 at 4:36 pm to
True they are better off financially, but that also brings its own set of issues. Lots of non-W2 employees, business owners, so you have the issue of actual income vs reported income, complex tax issues, debt owed for child support/past marriages, etc. Last two aren’t related to non-W2 status, but you get the idea.
Posted by Neauxla_Tiger
Member since Feb 2015
2108 posts
Posted on 11/2/23 at 4:51 pm to
Well I used the word "Typically" in my post, because of course everyone can have unique challenges. But generally speaking, higher income buyers don't bring the same baggage that lower income brings. They probably don't have past foreclosures, bankruptcies, credit card judgments, etc. that lower income are more prone to. Higher income are also likely more educated and won't do something dumb like get married while they have a pending loan application, or finance new furniture (they could buy cash). Also, if closing costs come in higher than expected, they are more likely to be able to absorb that blow than a lower earner.

The point was, that even though you have less buyers to choose from on a million dollar home, there are aspects to the million dollar sale that are easier than the 200k one. Not ALWAYS the case, but it's also not ALWAYS worth 5x the commission.
Posted by TJG210
New Orleans
Member since Aug 2006
29422 posts
Posted on 11/2/23 at 5:52 pm to
quote:

Not ALWAYS the case, but it's also not ALWAYS worth 5x the commission.


I’ll admit most transactions are easy, but that evens out with the ones that are difficult and the time that takes to get resolved, not to mention never being off the clock.
If it was so easy everyone should jump in and do it.
This post was edited on 11/2/23 at 6:39 pm
Posted by JohnnyKilroy
Cajun Navy Vice Admiral
Member since Oct 2012
41087 posts
Posted on 11/2/23 at 7:26 pm to
quote:

If it was so easy everyone should jump in and do it.


They have

Every bottle service girl in the country got their real estate license from 2019-2022
Posted by llfshoals
Member since Nov 2010
20916 posts
Posted on 11/3/23 at 7:20 am to
quote:

They probably don't have past foreclosures, bankruptcies, credit card judgments, etc
They do, not as often, but they’re in there.

On the buyer’s side the paperwork is roughly the same regardless of the transaction amount. Higher end clients tend to see more houses and take a lot longer before buying. Took over 2 years for one of mine.

It’s the sellers side where the clients can be exponentially more needy. They want more advertising and exposure. A billboard costs a lot more than an open house, and the client doesn’t pay for that.

I had one that didn’t sell in 90 days, it was priced too high, but they wouldn’t listen. Everything I spent on that was cost of doing business. They put it with another realtor and as far as I know it hadn’t had a single showing. They’re close to where I suggested pricing it 6 months ago, but with the market shifting it’s probably 50k less on a price to sell now than I had it then. Can’t tell really cause almost nothing is moving in that range right now.
Posted by llfshoals
Member since Nov 2010
20916 posts
Posted on 11/3/23 at 7:27 am to
quote:

They have Every bottle service girl in the country got their real estate license from 2019-2022
Ever hear the phrase 10% of the agents sell 90% of the real estate?

It’s not quite true, more like 20/80. The bottle service girl is probably still at her old job, handing 1, maybe 2 transactions a year for family or friends.

They aren’t willing to spend what I do every month to make this profitable. You do know people rarely just call an agent out of the blue right? I spend 10k a month on being the guy they call.
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