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How to negotiate a space rental agreement for a snowball trailer
Posted on 1/19/18 at 10:20 am
Posted on 1/19/18 at 10:20 am
So I posted about 8 months ago how I want to start a mobile snowball business in Dallas. The competition is non existent. I pinpointed a location that I think would be incredible to park at and start selling in the Summer. It's an old run down donut shop that is only open in the mornings and is drive thru only. It sits at a pivotal location at a 4 way red light with thousands of passing cars per day. The area around it is gentrifying and full of apartments.
The daytime population within 1 mile is 35,970 primarily driven by the medical district (Parkland Hospital, Children’s Health Hospital, UT Southwest Medical Center, and UT Southwestern).
My question is: does anyone have any experience negotiating something similar with a business to use their parking lot while they are closed? I want to go to these guys with a business plan, but I don't know what to offer them. Would it be a percentage of sales? A daily rent? Any help here would be appreciated.
(Requested to move to Money Board)
TIA.
The daytime population within 1 mile is 35,970 primarily driven by the medical district (Parkland Hospital, Children’s Health Hospital, UT Southwest Medical Center, and UT Southwestern).
My question is: does anyone have any experience negotiating something similar with a business to use their parking lot while they are closed? I want to go to these guys with a business plan, but I don't know what to offer them. Would it be a percentage of sales? A daily rent? Any help here would be appreciated.
(Requested to move to Money Board)
TIA.
This post was edited on 1/19/18 at 11:43 am
6
Posted on 1/19/18 at 10:25 am to MaHittaMaHitta
May be more of a money talk thread. But once you get what you're willing to pay in your head, just go talk to them. Don't say the first number, feel them out.
There is also a chance that they are renting the building and you'll need to ask the landlord.
There is also a chance that they are renting the building and you'll need to ask the landlord.
Posted on 1/19/18 at 10:50 am to MaHittaMaHitta
quote:
It sits at a pivotal location at a 4 way red light with thousands of passing cars per day.
I can't answer about the rent, but is this an "easy in, easy out" location? It sounds like a very busy intersection.
Does this donut shop get a lot of business when it's open?
Posted on 1/19/18 at 11:05 am to MaHittaMaHitta
Could you operate the snowball stand out of a food truck and follow food truck regulations in that area?
Posted on 1/19/18 at 11:15 am to TypoKnig
quote:
Could you operate the snowball stand out of a food truck and follow food truck regulations in that area?
I could operate out of a food truck. Are you asking why I choose a truck over a trailer? If so, I need to start small. Trucks are astronomically more expensive. I plan on moving my trailer to different locations once I get some good business going.
My goal is to be able to bring it to ball parks for summer baseball tournaments in the burbs like Plano and Frisco, and bring it to fairs and parks.
I believe the regulations and permits are the same for a mobile food/drink service. I'm speaking to someone from the city next week on permits.
Posted on 1/19/18 at 11:21 am to Gris Gris
quote:
is this an "easy in, easy out" location? It sounds like a very busy intersection.
Yes, it has a very easy entrance and exit. Here is the location: Google Maps Street View
I'm not sure about how successful the donut shop is (I'm never passing it in the mornings bc I work the opposite direction), but I do think the location has so much potential. The area around it just gentrified so much. It is the last shitty building in the area really. I think If I put the trailer there with eye catching banners or something, it could be a hit.
This is just one location that I want to look into first, primarily because I live in an apartment a couple blocks away and I know the area well.
It is next to the entrance one of the biggest hospital in America as well.
This post was edited on 1/19/18 at 11:24 am
Posted on 1/19/18 at 11:23 am to MaHittaMaHitta
As Gris said upthread, before you even begin negotiating, go to the location at various times during the day. Can you actually get in and out of the parking lot easily? A snowball is gonna be grab n go, unless you have some benches or picnic tables outside. So before you start talking money, make sure that you can get in and out of this parking lot at peak times.
Check online property records to determine who owns the spot. Find out who owns the doughnut shop. Don’t just ask the employees, who may not know or may give you misinformation. If doughnut shop is a tenant, that lease agreement may preclude you from subleasing from the owner.
Price would need to be pretty damn low in the beginning; consider a step-up in monthly rent or a very short term deal (3 months). Snowballs are very seasonal and time of day sensitive, at least around here.
Check online property records to determine who owns the spot. Find out who owns the doughnut shop. Don’t just ask the employees, who may not know or may give you misinformation. If doughnut shop is a tenant, that lease agreement may preclude you from subleasing from the owner.
Price would need to be pretty damn low in the beginning; consider a step-up in monthly rent or a very short term deal (3 months). Snowballs are very seasonal and time of day sensitive, at least around here.
Posted on 1/19/18 at 11:25 am to hungryone
Very good information. Thank you!
Posted on 1/19/18 at 11:54 am to hungryone
quote:
As Gris said upthread, before you even begin negotiating, go to the location at various times during the day. Can you actually get in and out of the parking lot easily? A snowball is gonna be grab n go, unless you have some benches or picnic tables outside.
If the access is not great, consider a place with a larger open parking lot. A good place to put these is in a large parking lot like a grocery store. Optimistically thinking, you need room for a line of cars, also known as a "queue area". If you become popular, you don't want lines extending into the street. At that point, you will begin losing customers.
Also, from experience, snow cone stands can be ridiculously profitable when serving the general public. You mentioned moving on to taking your trailer to ballparks....Prepare for a rude awakening. Your profit will almost disappear.
Posted on 1/19/18 at 12:09 pm to Boudreaux35
quote:
You mentioned moving on to taking your trailer to ballparks....Prepare for a rude awakening. Your profit will almost disappear.
Please expand on this.
You say you have experience. If you'd be up for it I'd love to pick your brain on the subject. Shoot me an email at mahittamahitta at gmail.com
Posted on 1/19/18 at 12:23 pm to MaHittaMaHitta
Just consider that if your business does amazingly well and you rent from the owner, then there's a good chance they start their own business doing the same thing and boot you.
What kind of rent are you invisioning? The good thing about you being mobile is they don't have to do anything permanent.
Consider clean up also. You may need to use their water?
Snow cones smell like shite if not cleaned up routinely.
What kind of rent are you invisioning? The good thing about you being mobile is they don't have to do anything permanent.
Consider clean up also. You may need to use their water?
Snow cones smell like shite if not cleaned up routinely.
Posted on 1/19/18 at 12:52 pm to MaHittaMaHitta
I hope you are planning to make shaved block ice snowballs...
Posted on 1/19/18 at 2:02 pm to wickowick
I was thinking some sort of healthy-ish juice balls need to be on the menu if it’s next door to a giant hospital. Patients aren’t really your customers, the hospital workers are, so figure out how to do a Knudsen’s juices over ice or similar natural/low sugar options.
Posted on 1/19/18 at 2:08 pm to MaHittaMaHitta
quote:
Would it be a percentage of sales? A daily rent? Any help here would be appreciated.
Whatever you do, do not do the percentage of revenue option unless you have no start up capital. They will not agree to it anyway because there is no way to audit a cash business. Take a daily rate all day. If they have any sense they'll ask you to provide liability and addtl insured documentation for their business.
This post was edited on 1/19/18 at 2:10 pm
Posted on 1/20/18 at 7:40 am to YoungManOldMan
Is there anything located further south by those large medical complexes and hospitals? I would think they would have large amounts of foot traffic.
Posted on 1/20/18 at 11:37 am to hungryone
quote:
Can you actually get in and out of the parking lot easily?
I talked to a guy who owned a Sonic at the busiest intersection in a parish. He ended up moving it about 1/4 mile away because the original locations was "too good" as he put it. Tons of traffic, but no one wanted to stop and get stuck in his lot.
Posted on 1/20/18 at 12:56 pm to Twenty 49
I’ve seen several food businesses fail because of too-high traffic volume. It really does depend on the traffic pattern of the intersection—are the lights/turn lanes/etc configured to allow a car easily into and out of the parking lot? Looking at a photo won’t tell you this. Going to the location during the planned operating hours is the best way to figure it out.
I still don’t necessarily see medical neighbors as such a great draw for a snowball operation. I’d be looking for proximity to a middle/high school, busy park/playground or athletic field, college/trade school....a younger demographic that isn’t as calorie/sugar conscious, or a place where younger kids go with parents.
I still don’t necessarily see medical neighbors as such a great draw for a snowball operation. I’d be looking for proximity to a middle/high school, busy park/playground or athletic field, college/trade school....a younger demographic that isn’t as calorie/sugar conscious, or a place where younger kids go with parents.
Posted on 1/23/18 at 2:38 pm to hungryone
Have you considered further North like Richardson. I'm a Nola native and had the snowball stand idea myself.
Everything around here sucks. I tried Ruby's, which is supposedly owned by someone who worked at Sal's growing up, but I thought it sucked.
I miss Nola flavors like wedding cake, chocolate etc. Went to a place off 75 and Meadow and their chocolate was Hershey's syrup... No lie.
I even have the perfect location...a tiny little building off Belt Line/Main St and Greenville in downtown Richardson. That whole area is getting revitalized soon and it's very family friendly. Foot traffic is possible too.
Post here when you open cause I'll try you out. Please tell me it'll be New Orleans style in styrofoam cups (I absolutely hate the Chinese takeout containers) with plenty of sugar free options (I'm doing keto diet).
Everything around here sucks. I tried Ruby's, which is supposedly owned by someone who worked at Sal's growing up, but I thought it sucked.
I miss Nola flavors like wedding cake, chocolate etc. Went to a place off 75 and Meadow and their chocolate was Hershey's syrup... No lie.
I even have the perfect location...a tiny little building off Belt Line/Main St and Greenville in downtown Richardson. That whole area is getting revitalized soon and it's very family friendly. Foot traffic is possible too.
Post here when you open cause I'll try you out. Please tell me it'll be New Orleans style in styrofoam cups (I absolutely hate the Chinese takeout containers) with plenty of sugar free options (I'm doing keto diet).
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