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First time trading options - Am I doing this right?

Posted on 11/24/20 at 7:53 am
Posted by Tigerfan56
Member since May 2010
10520 posts
Posted on 11/24/20 at 7:53 am
I want to use options to hedge against my long term holdings.

I bought 150 shares of JMIA a week ago at $17.27/share and it is up roughly 80% since then - trading at about $31.50 right now. I want to hedge against a fall back, without selling any of my shares.

I am putting in an order to buy a 1/15/21 $26 put for $3.45. My understanding is that means I will pay $345 for the right to sell 100 shares of JMIA for $26/share by 1/15/21. This will effectively hedge my position at a modest price that I am comfortable with and if it doesn't fall below $26 in that time, fine by me. Also, if it does drop, I can sell the option contract for a gain without selling the shares - correct?

Am I thinking of this right? Am I using this option strategy to correctly hedge? I obviously don't know what I am doing - having never traded options before.
Posted by Jag_Warrior
Virginia
Member since May 2015
4079 posts
Posted on 11/24/20 at 9:16 am to
If $26 is the price point that you're trying to protect, then yes, that strategy will protect you. If the stock penetrates that strike by at least .01 (for most brokers), you could exercise your option and assign your shares - or you could sell the option for whatever it's worth prior to expiration.
Posted by frogtown
Member since Aug 2017
4987 posts
Posted on 11/24/20 at 11:02 am to
IMO $345 is a lot to hedge a $3100 position.

I know you said you want to keep your shares but I would sell the Jan 21 $35 call. Stick the $360 in your pocket. If the stock goes north of $35 and you get called out you still made a helluva gain. JMO.

Posted by cgrand
HAMMOND
Member since Oct 2009
38624 posts
Posted on 11/24/20 at 11:05 am to
quote:

IMO $345 is a lot to hedge a $3100 position.

the 3.45 price is the issue.
i havent looked at the option chain...was there not a better price (different expiry, different strike)?
This post was edited on 11/24/20 at 11:07 am
Posted by Jobo
Member since Dec 2011
60 posts
Posted on 11/24/20 at 11:13 am to
If you think it will decrease, and you don’t want to sell the stock wouldn’t a more effective hedge be to sell a call? If it goes down you pocket the premium and decrease any potential loss in value. Additionally since it increase 80% call premiums are high.
Posted by Tigerfan56
Member since May 2010
10520 posts
Posted on 11/24/20 at 11:19 am to
I don't know what the most effective strategy would be - that's why I came here to ask. I really don't know and am trying to learn, not just for this stock but for my other positions as well. I would like to incorporate options to hedge against risk.
Posted by Tigerfan56
Member since May 2010
10520 posts
Posted on 11/24/20 at 11:22 am to
quote:

the 3.45 price is the issue.
i havent looked at the option chain...was there not a better price (different expiry, different strike)?


There were plenty of expiry and strikes available.

I went with $26 1/15/21 at 3.10 because I suspect a pretty big move down from this run could happen. But maybe, based on that expectation, I should have gone with a lower strike price and paid a lower premium?
Posted by cgrand
HAMMOND
Member since Oct 2009
38624 posts
Posted on 11/24/20 at 11:43 am to
quote:

But maybe, based on that expectation, I should have gone with a lower strike price and paid a lower premium?

here's the thing...you are spending 10% of your current position to protect against a drawdown. 10% is already a drawdown

your position size isnt large enough to justify the insurance premium. in risk terms, its not worth the deductible. the method however is sound
Posted by Tigerfan56
Member since May 2010
10520 posts
Posted on 11/24/20 at 11:52 am to
quote:

here's the thing...you are spending 10% of your current position to protect against a drawdown. 10% is already a drawdown

your position size isnt large enough to justify the insurance premium. in risk terms, its not worth the deductible. the method however is sound




Yeah, putting it that way I totally get it

I went ahead and sold the put for a quick gain today.

I then sold a 1/15/21 $35 call for $3.70. If it gets called, I will have doubled my investment in 2 months, and still have 50 shares to ride the wave with. If it doesn't, I will still have all my shares plus income from the premium.

I think this latter strategy makes more sense. I can't really "lose" here since it is a long term hold for me. I just cap my gains, but it is a cap I am okay with.
This post was edited on 11/24/20 at 11:54 am
Posted by Jag_Warrior
Virginia
Member since May 2015
4079 posts
Posted on 11/24/20 at 12:08 pm to
No matter what strike you go with, the issue that you'll run into is that you're dealing with a relatively high IV (implied volatility) stock (138%) that also has a high IV percentile rank (59%) - so only 41% of the time is the IV higher than it is now. The expected price range for JMIA for the Jan. '21 expiration is +/- $12.17.

Generally speaking, I don't buy options outside of creating spreads. But in cases like this, where IV and IV rank are relatively high, I look to sell option premium. But where you're long, if you want insurance, you're going to pay a hefty price for it. The further away you are from the current price, you'll pay less. But the probability that the insurance will pay off for you is negated by the lower strike (so you'd have a larger loss on the long stock). Think of it just like the deductible on your house or car. Higher deductible means a lower premium but a larger out of pocket. Options work essentially the same way.

So to use a car metaphor, you're looking to insure a Porsche 911 GT-3 - the premium is going to be relatively high no matter what. If you're determined to keep this stock and insure it, it's going to cost you (as well as raising your cost basis/break even).

Full disclosure: I don't own the stock, and because of the high IV, I'm short JMIA put options.
Posted by cgrand
HAMMOND
Member since Oct 2009
38624 posts
Posted on 11/24/20 at 12:25 pm to
listen to jag

bottom line is that it is extremely likely JMIA is going to fall when the FOMO wears off and when it does it will fall pretty hard. So either hold tight long for years or take profits soon
Posted by James_Wilson
Member since Nov 2020
90 posts
Posted on 11/24/20 at 12:34 pm to
You could do a zero-cost collar by purchasing the $26 Jan-21 PUT while simultaneously selling the $33 Jan-21 CALL. Both currently have a $3.90 premium.

You are capping your upside, but buying the insurance you were wanting for a net zero cost.

Or sell the $43 Jan-21 CALL to collect $1.95, halving the price of the insurance and giving you $10 more headroom on the upside.
Posted by Bestbank Tiger
Premium Member
Member since Jan 2005
70801 posts
Posted on 11/24/20 at 12:46 pm to
Easier method of doing it would be to place a stop loss order for $26. Doesn't cost anything and it either triggers automatically if that price is hit or it expires automatically at the specified time.
Posted by Jag_Warrior
Virginia
Member since May 2015
4079 posts
Posted on 11/24/20 at 1:00 pm to
quote:

You could do a zero-cost collar by purchasing the $26 Jan-21 PUT while simultaneously selling the $33 Jan-21 CALL. Both currently have a $3.90 premium.

You are capping your upside, but buying the insurance you were wanting for a net zero cost.

Or sell the $43 Jan-21 CALL to collect $1.95, halving the price of the insurance and giving you $10 more headroom on the upside.


In his case, a collar wouldn't be a bad idea at all.
Posted by James_Wilson
Member since Nov 2020
90 posts
Posted on 11/24/20 at 2:04 pm to
quote:

Easier method of doing it would be to place a stop loss order for $26. Doesn't cost anything and it either triggers automatically if that price is hit or it expires automatically at the specified time.


Except with a stop loss order, he loses money dollar for dollar all the way down to $26.

With the zero cost collar, he will gain back some of the loss on the stock as the PUT becomes more valuable as it approaches the strike price.
Posted by makersmark1
earth
Member since Oct 2011
15738 posts
Posted on 11/25/20 at 5:28 am to
Buying Puts is reasonable IF a considerable amount of your personal wealth is in ONE stock. It provides protection against a big move down.

Selling puts CAN be a good way to attempt to start a position on a stock you want to buy.

Buying calls is a bet on a move higher. Leverages your money by giving you control of 100 shares per contract.

Selling calls generates income. I only do it against shares I own- covered calls. If the stock does not reach the the strike, you can sell another call.
Posted by hiltacular
NYC
Member since Jan 2011
19665 posts
Posted on 11/25/20 at 7:19 am to
quote:

Easier method of doing it would be to place a stop loss order for $26. Doesn't cost anything and it either triggers automatically if that price is hit or it expires automatically at the specified time.


He is literally trying to hedge against this happening
Posted by bayoumuscle21
St. George
Member since Jan 2012
4633 posts
Posted on 11/25/20 at 9:23 pm to
Options intimidate the shite out of me. I know something about the strategy just hasnt clicked right, but I refuse to do them until I understand them completely. I've read and watched a ton of stuff on options, but I'm still missing something. And I've been doing really well on my stocks over the last little while so it's not bothering me lol.

When I get some time, I'm going to mess with them on paper money to try some things.
Posted by Jag_Warrior
Virginia
Member since May 2015
4079 posts
Posted on 11/30/20 at 10:00 am to
Just a suggestion: start out with the simplest strategies (puts and calls) and learn them until anything and everything involving them is second nature to you. Test your knowledge using paper trades. The most important things to learn are risk (most important) and reward... then risk vs. reward.

Two of the better resources IMO are Tastytrade and OptionAlpha. Both have lots of free resources for the beginner to the most advanced trader. But both focus more on premium selling rather than buying or being net long options. For that there are other sites and resources. But if you get down in the weeds with either or both of those sites, you’ll see why the most consistent returns come from being net short premium (in high IV environments). But you can make money by being long in certain situations, as many here can tell you.

Once you get serious and get some knowledge under your belt, you can do very well for yourself if you are disciplined. Good luck.
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