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Fed/Powell - "It will become necessary to accelerate MBS/other balance sheet liquidations"
Posted on 6/23/22 at 3:12 pm
Posted on 6/23/22 at 3:12 pm
Translation:
The FED is going to kill the massive divergence between household incomes and home prices, through MBS/other balance sheet sales and further rate increases. As a policy prescription they will overshoot their targets in the near term, as is normal (see historical empirical proof ala Overreaction Theory). Subsequently, housing and pricing will once again normalize, also as is historically normal. There is nothing new under the sun.
The FED is going to kill the massive divergence between household incomes and home prices, through MBS/other balance sheet sales and further rate increases. As a policy prescription they will overshoot their targets in the near term, as is normal (see historical empirical proof ala Overreaction Theory). Subsequently, housing and pricing will once again normalize, also as is historically normal. There is nothing new under the sun.
Posted on 6/23/22 at 3:36 pm to HailToTheChiz
quote:
Explain like I'm 5
Recession is coming.
Posted on 6/23/22 at 4:07 pm to HailToTheChiz
quote:
Explain like I'm 5
Start with what the hell is MBS and how does it affect me.
Posted on 6/23/22 at 4:09 pm to TeaParty
Mortgage-Backed Securities.
But I have no idea what any of the other shite means
But I have no idea what any of the other shite means
Posted on 6/23/22 at 4:14 pm to HailToTheChiz
quote:A simple explanation is that a healthy and normal Median Home Sales Price/Median Family Income Ratio is between 2 and 3 for the US average. Currently, the US is at 4.7. For reference, in 2008 it was 3.9. The FED is readying additional measures (along with rate increases) to lower this ratio. The higher the ratio in your local market, the more significant the price correction will be. In other words, a place like Seattle is going to get absolutely boned, while a place like Ames, Iowa will see a much flatter correction.
Explain like I'm 5
Posted on 6/23/22 at 4:40 pm to alpinetiger
So he’s suggesting that financial institutions and investors need to ditch MBS?
Can you give us a link?
Can you give us a link?
This post was edited on 6/23/22 at 4:42 pm
Posted on 6/23/22 at 4:59 pm to dewster
quote:I didn't/don't read articles. Powell made these comments during the Q & A of the Monetary Policy Report to Congress yesterday. Below is a link to his opening statement and you can watch the actual testimony, but the transcripts haven't been posted yet.
So he’s suggesting that financial institutions and investors need to ditch MBS?
Can you give us a link?
Semiannual Monetary Policy Report to Congress - Powell
Posted on 6/23/22 at 5:37 pm to alpinetiger
Reddit thread mentioning the other times MBS have received no bids:
LINK
REITS may also indicate investors expect decreased real estate valuations in the near future
LINK
quote:
The previous four times this has happened:
1979, Saturday of Columbus Day Weekend, Paul Volcker announced that the Fed would allow the cost of money to float as high as necessary. Mortgages 11% on Friday, on Tuesday after the holiday 13%. However! That was 15 years into entrenched inflation, oil ten times as expensive in 1979 as 1972, and our economy just beginning energy conservation and new supply. All incomes ramped right along with inflation. The US economy was a “things” economy, with little overseas competition for union-heavy US labor.
1994, February... the cost of money coming out of recession 1.00%, by year-end 1994 to 5.25% -- but in a disinflationary world, the cost of money was one-half the cycle peak four years before. 1994, February to May, mortgages from 7% to 9% -- that magic two-point rise flattened housing, and the Fed had to cut in 1995 to dodge recession. The new mortgage peak, stabilizing near 8% was down from 11% in 1990, and we enjoyed a genuine and rare soft landing.
2007, July... you had to be deep in the mortgage racket to understand the first collision. Subprime and Jumbos went no-bid, and stayed there. The Fed was slow to understand the credit panic, began frantic cuts the following winter from 5.25% to 2.00%. But mortgages did not respond, stuck above 6.00%.
2008, July... the no-bid expanded to all mortgages, even government guaranteed. The 10-year T-note anticipating recession and worse fell to 3.50% while retail mortgages rose to 7.00%. That 350bps spread is the closest comparable to today’s 300bps.
REITS may also indicate investors expect decreased real estate valuations in the near future
Posted on 6/23/22 at 6:10 pm to Drunken Crawfish
quote:
Mortgage-Backed Securities
she can teach me about them anytime
Posted on 6/23/22 at 6:36 pm to alpinetiger
The housing market is their main target ... they know what most know which is they cannot mess with their Treasury bond market and they can't actually sell those into the marketplace
they are trying as hard as possible to threaten it ... as "QT" has not even started yet ... so if they actually reduce their balance sheet (arguable) it'll be MBS first and let the market sort that shite out (see: investors need higher yields for the risk, won't get it, puts pressure on interest rates and ultimately prices)
aplinetiger nailed it for the most part
they are trying as hard as possible to threaten it ... as "QT" has not even started yet ... so if they actually reduce their balance sheet (arguable) it'll be MBS first and let the market sort that shite out (see: investors need higher yields for the risk, won't get it, puts pressure on interest rates and ultimately prices)
aplinetiger nailed it for the most part
Posted on 6/23/22 at 9:48 pm to alpinetiger
Also of note - Powell looks worn the frick out. He may not survive this recession
Posted on 6/23/22 at 10:33 pm to TigerFanatic99
Powell is in a no win solution. He'd like to succeed with the Volcker playbook but we're in a different place in 2022 with the 30 trillion debt.
I see no painless solution
I see no painless solution
Posted on 6/24/22 at 8:18 am to alpinetiger
I don't think they can artificially bust prices like this when there is a literal housing shortage. We've had over a decade of anemic new home construction and that can't be fixed with the stroke of a pen.
Economics 101 - Supply/demand
Economics 101 - Supply/demand
Posted on 6/24/22 at 8:22 am to Ace Midnight
quote:
I don't think they can artificially bust prices like this when there is a literal housing shortage.
quote:
Economics 101 - Supply/demand
You are only discussing 1 side of the equation, isn't he talking about the other?
Posted on 6/24/22 at 8:27 am to bod312
quote:
You are only discussing 1 side of the equation, isn't he talking about the other?
The demand will still be there, but there will be fewer available dollars to offer the seller because more has to go to the bank. I get that, but typically those spikes are transitory and prices stabilize fairly quickly.
What happens is, higher interest rates make it more expensive to invest in new housing which will exacerbate the shortage and prolong it.
I don't know why more new homes weren't built in the past 15 years, but I suspect it is government regulation.
Posted on 6/24/22 at 8:51 am to alpinetiger
I just feel like we are fricked until 2024 at the earliest. It’s only gonna get worse
Posted on 6/24/22 at 9:01 am to Ace Midnight
quote:This is a well-worn myth that won't die. I've posted these graphs several times. This is not a "news" article from a housing market shill that is too lazy to look at near-time inventory data. These are simply data graphs from the Federal Reserve. The inventories will continue to increase in the coming months.:
literal housing shortage
This first graph is NEW Housing supply for the US. Between 6-9 months is the historical average (w/ population normalization). Tight inventory existed Q3 2020- Q32021, & Q1 2022, but doesn't exist now. In fact, the inventory delta from April to May was the largest increase in HISTORY.
Next is EXISTING Home Inventory. Historical normal (w/ population normalization) is 1.0mm to 1.4mm. Again tight inventories existed in Q4 2021 - Q1 2022. Not any longer. These number will continue to increase in the coming months.
Last is a frame of reference and comparison to 2008. The inventory J-curve is more vertical this time around. Will that continue? I don't know, I can't predict the future. But I speculate that it will because the divergence between incomes and housing costs is so high and you have the FED chirping about bringing this back in line.
Stop reading articles from housing market evangelists who repackage the same editorial playbook every market cycle. Look at the raw, near-time data. You can get this info directly from the FED.
Posted on 6/24/22 at 9:06 am to alpinetiger
How much of that open inventory is in places people don't want to live in anymore? I'm sure there are whole areas where people are saying frick this place. Like cities.
Posted on 6/24/22 at 11:11 am to GhostofJackson
quote:
How much of that open inventory is in places people don't want to live in anymore?
Detroit and Baltimore come to mind.
And, "housing evangelists" or not, the fact that prior to that last bubble bursting, there were over 5 MILLION starts for the 3 years 2005 through 2007 and that was on a slight decline for 2007.
In the 15 years since, there have been barely 13 million (through 2021) starts, only getting back to pre-2008 levels in 2021. Roughly 1.5 million a year is a reasonable estimate of a median year going back decades.
The last 15 years has us roughly 9 to 10 million short.
This post was edited on 6/24/22 at 11:15 am
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