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re: Dow down 700 pts

Posted on 12/4/18 at 8:54 pm to
Posted by Thib-a-doe Tiger
Member since Nov 2012
35346 posts
Posted on 12/4/18 at 8:54 pm to
What happened baw? I’m catching up on shows



ETA: forgot what tomorrow is
This post was edited on 12/4/18 at 8:56 pm
Posted by LSUcam7
FL
Member since Sep 2016
7901 posts
Posted on 12/4/18 at 9:00 pm to
quote:

bought a triple levered inverse index etf today based on that poster predicting the crash


2% of the time it works every time.
Posted by TigersFan64
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Oct 2014
4755 posts
Posted on 12/5/18 at 12:00 am to
The yield curve inversion preceeded the Great Recession and other previous downturns in financial markets. We are just about in another situation where we have an inverted yield curve. Many economists put a lot of stock in it as a predictor of market downturns.
Posted by tigerpawl
Can't get there from here.
Member since Dec 2003
22237 posts
Posted on 12/5/18 at 7:27 am to
Posted by slackster
Houston
Member since Mar 2009
84610 posts
Posted on 12/5/18 at 8:26 am to
quote:

The yield curve inversion preceeded the Great Recession and other previous downturns in financial markets.


True, but that downturn was anywhere from 17-31 months out after inversion. That's a substantial amount of time to still make money post yield curve inversion, and it's more than a year gap you could be too early/late.

As a tool to use regarding investment decisions, it's shoddy at best.
Posted by LSUcam7
FL
Member since Sep 2016
7901 posts
Posted on 12/5/18 at 8:51 am to
Not a timing indicator, it’s a condition indicator.
Posted by slackster
Houston
Member since Mar 2009
84610 posts
Posted on 12/5/18 at 9:49 am to
quote:

Not a timing indicator, it’s a condition indicator.


Even still, what good is a condition indicator with no predictive power?

10y minus 3-month spreads are at 60 basis points. The last 3 times they fell from 150 basis points to 60, the market rallied 154% cumulatively (16.9% annualized), 32% cumulatively (8.5% annualized), and 26.5% cumulatively (11.5% annualized) from breaking that support level to actual recession.

Yield inversion is essentially hogwash as far as I'm concerned. It's a tiny part of a much larger dynamic.
Posted by Thib-a-doe Tiger
Member since Nov 2012
35346 posts
Posted on 12/5/18 at 10:51 am to
quote:

Yield inversion is essentially hogwash as far as I'm concerned. It's a tiny part of a much larger dynamic.



I think it means even less when you consider all the instantaneous information that markets are able to react to now. Movements in the yield curve happen way more quickly than they did 20,30,80 years ago

2 percent daily movements in the market are the new norm
Posted by Hussss
Living the Dream
Member since Oct 2016
6741 posts
Posted on 12/5/18 at 1:22 pm to
Baby boomers have the majority of the money out in the economy (they had plenty of disposable income because their cost of living was so low). They don't have to spend (velocity has slowed to a crawl) like younger people do and are net sellers of stocks for the forseeable future. Liquidity in these markets are at all time lows. We have to ask ourselves: where will the net buyers come from? If central banks don't start buying stocks, we will collapse.

Personally, I am buying volatility on any weakness.

Good luck everyone
This post was edited on 12/5/18 at 1:27 pm
Posted by Shepherd88
Member since Dec 2013
4579 posts
Posted on 12/5/18 at 2:04 pm to
quote:

If central banks don't start buying stocks, we will collapse.


That’s hilarious
Posted by Shankopotomus
Social Distanced
Member since Feb 2009
21057 posts
Posted on 12/5/18 at 2:07 pm to
I do think you'll see another round of QE to inflate the system once more ... the question is will Trump's rhetoric about The Fed actually have an impact on them in terms of acting, i.e. will they hold off during election cycle to allow down economy and hurt Trump's re election....
Posted by Thib-a-doe Tiger
Member since Nov 2012
35346 posts
Posted on 12/5/18 at 2:30 pm to
quote:

They don't have to spend (velocity has slowed to a crawl) like younger people do and are net sellers of stocks for the forseeable future. Liquidity in these markets are at all time lows.



Wut
Posted by Shepherd88
Member since Dec 2013
4579 posts
Posted on 12/5/18 at 2:35 pm to
Inflate what system? There is no inflation.
Posted by Hussss
Living the Dream
Member since Oct 2016
6741 posts
Posted on 12/5/18 at 2:58 pm to
Demographics are a HUGE problem not just here but globally.

People just aren’t having children like they used to. Just can’t afford it.

It takes more and more people borrowing and spending to keep the ponzi going. This is the exact reason that the banking system wants open borders which equal more debt slaves to keep it all going. Every country fighting over crumbs of a rapidly shrinking pie.
This post was edited on 12/5/18 at 3:05 pm
Posted by Thib-a-doe Tiger
Member since Nov 2012
35346 posts
Posted on 12/5/18 at 3:14 pm to
How can we have the largest demographic be net sellers, and at the same time have a liquidity problem? Someone is obviously buying
Posted by Hussss
Living the Dream
Member since Oct 2016
6741 posts
Posted on 12/5/18 at 3:18 pm to
PRogrammed algos are buying (until they aren’t and bids dry up). They can and will pull bids quickly when we get a 2008 type volatility spike which is coming very soon.

This is what happens when the Fed scared out short sellers for so long.

You need them to buy to cover (liquidity for sellers wanting out).

Most of the holdings are in passive investment vehicles like ETFs.

You will see the biggest flash crash you can imagine.
This post was edited on 12/5/18 at 3:49 pm
Posted by Shepherd88
Member since Dec 2013
4579 posts
Posted on 12/5/18 at 3:51 pm to
The amount of volume that’s traded in the ETF’s secondary market is insane. They likely won’t ever have to touch the primary market, so liquidity is definitely not an issue.
Posted by LSURussian
Member since Feb 2005
126960 posts
Posted on 12/5/18 at 3:53 pm to
quote:

If central banks don't start buying stocks, we will collapse.
Then I guess we’re going to collapse because the Federal Reserve, by law, cannot buy stocks. It can buy corporate bonds but not equities.
Posted by Hussss
Living the Dream
Member since Oct 2016
6741 posts
Posted on 12/5/18 at 3:54 pm to
The Fed is withdrawing (quantitative tightening) 60B a month.
Posted by Hussss
Living the Dream
Member since Oct 2016
6741 posts
Posted on 12/5/18 at 3:55 pm to
Exactly
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