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Started By
Message
re: DOJ To Investigate Retail Day Traders For Possible Market Manipulation
Posted on 2/12/21 at 9:30 pm to SlowFlowPro
Posted on 2/12/21 at 9:30 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
I was called a terrible attorney for suggesting there were laws in play for possible prosecutions
No, you all but guaranteed prosecution. Last time I checked investigation doesn’t equal prosecution. Don’t start you victory lap just yet.
1
Posted on 2/12/21 at 10:57 pm to Bestbank Tiger
quote:
The Redditors had to hope tens of thousands of unconnected people did the same thing.
Like almost every poster ever on the Yahoo! Finance comments sections ("Conversations" now).
Posted on 2/12/21 at 10:58 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
i don't think people who just bought will be in trouble
it's what they posted publicly
posterA saying "hey TD, i think this is a good stock because x, y, z" is one thing
posterB saying, "hey if we all buy this stock, we can get the price to increase and then others will join in" is potentially illegal
I will be shocked if any retail trader is charged with a crime in relation to the GME frenzy.
You will get clickbait articles like this, or "sources say the authorities are considering the options" type of bullshite but ultimately, nothing will come of it.
Posted on 2/12/21 at 10:59 pm to Auburn1968
[url=https://ibb.co/ZWrWcSf]
[/url] Yeah, the retail investors were really the ones moving the market. What a fricking joke our government is
This post was edited on 2/12/21 at 11:01 pm
Posted on 2/13/21 at 7:04 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
I was called a terrible attorney for suggesting there were laws in play for possible prosecutions
This doesn't make you a good attorney. This makes the DOJ a load of peter puffers.
Posted on 2/13/21 at 7:12 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
if people were working together to buy shares to manipulate the price to induce others to join in, that can be interpreted as market manipulation
Yes and billionaire hedge fund managers working together to short and dump shares to manipulate the price is kosher
You get dumber over time
Posted on 2/13/21 at 7:28 am to 13SaintTiger
quote:
you all but guaranteed prosecution.
no i didn't
Posted on 2/13/21 at 7:29 am to Strannix
quote:
Yes and billionaire hedge fund managers working together to short and dump shares to manipulate the price is kosher
where did i say that, Strawmannix?
Posted on 2/13/21 at 7:30 am to oklahogjr
quote:What guy was posting daily about everyone buying together? There was no guy on WSB doing this. Turn off CNBC you newb.
You mean. Like a guy posting dialy about everyone buying together and causing a short squeeze on a social media sites? Cause yeah.....they're probably not done breaking it off in wsb arse after that stunt
How can all the other media outlets give buy or sell ratings on stocks, but this isn't market manipulation? Its only manipulation when the retailers catch the big boys with their pants down in the horse stable.
At least this has woken some of the sheep up to see that the govt is not for the citizens but represent corporations. GME was $500 premarket and just before 10am, several brokers halted all the buying of the stock, and only allowed you to panic sell. That is market manipulation. That is what should be investigated and not what some retailers discuss on a message board. Look at all the stonk advice in here. If WSB was manipulating the market, then you damn sure know that the OT had its hand in manipulating the market too. Look at how much stonks get talked about here.
Posted on 2/13/21 at 7:37 am to KickPuncher
quote:
How can all the other media outlets give buy or sell ratings on stocks, but this isn't market manipulation?
because there are more elements to it, the biggest being to create a price change to influence others to participate
if you're just giving an opinion and the price changes because of behaviors following that, it's fine
you can go read the early analyses of last year or early this year (like Upperdecker's) where they give opinions based on some sort of research. that's fine. then you get the second wave of GME-mania, when people start collectively working together to increase the price and use that to get others to join. that's not the same thing and it's potentially illegal.
quote:
GME was $500 premarket and just before 10am, several brokers halted all the buying of the stock, and only allowed you to panic sell. That is market manipulation.
i'm not disagreeing, even though people keep trying to use this as an argument against my posts relating to the retail side
what will likely save Wall Street is the clearing house middleman, who is the one who officially called the shots with the brokers. unless there are some real smoking gun communications between parties, everyone is going to say the clearing houses (of which there is really one) made the call due to risk analysis. one party is allowed to make decisions that affect the market as long as those decisions are based on some sort of logic/research
Posted on 2/13/21 at 7:50 am to SlowFlowPro
Long story short the hedge retards got their dick caught in the short squeeze rat trap and they're passed off and embarrassed because it was DragonBall Z millenials who pushed their shite in and not their fellow ivy league trust fund Wall Street craps table buddies who did the fricking.
This scares them so they want the chilling effect of a sham SEC investigation.
IMO the case is DOA because there are missing elements. Nothing said was untrue or fabricated, no insider information was used. They recognized a market force that was public information and leveraged it. When you blind short you are on the hook for unlimited liability to cover, They're fricking idiots.
This scares them so they want the chilling effect of a sham SEC investigation.
IMO the case is DOA because there are missing elements. Nothing said was untrue or fabricated, no insider information was used. They recognized a market force that was public information and leveraged it. When you blind short you are on the hook for unlimited liability to cover, They're fricking idiots.
This post was edited on 2/13/21 at 7:54 am
Posted on 2/13/21 at 8:02 am to Strannix
quote:
Long story short the hedge retards got their dick caught in the short squeeze rat trap and they're passed off and embarrassed because it was DragonBall Z millenials who pushed their shite in and not their fellow ivy league trust fund Wall Street craps table buddies who did the fricking.
This scares them so they want the chilling effect of a sham SEC investigation
well, in their defense, what happened wasn't really anticipated by the current regulatory framework (being as it's novel and uses technology so regulations will lag), but the best fit within the new framework is market manipulation.
you bet your arse the federales are going to come down hard on this, b/c this sort of mass market manipulation effectively kills the sort of markets the entire system has been built around. i've been arguing this for weeks. i've also said that on a theoretical level the WSB-level manipulators may be proven to not be manipulators, but they'll be broke before it gets there.
quote:
Nothing said was untrue or fabricated,
not required for MM
quote:
no insider information was used
not required for MM
Posted on 2/13/21 at 8:02 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
posterA saying "hey TD, i think this is a good stock because x, y, z" is one thing
posterB saying, "hey if we all buy this stock, we can get the price to increase and then others will join in" is potentially illegal
Hey XYZ is a good buy because its impossibly over shorted, which was true, accurate, public information.
Not illegal, now we know the shorters were engaged in possibly illegal market manipulation, and Robin Hood is guilty of bald faced market manipulation.
Posted on 2/13/21 at 8:16 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
not required for MM
I'm gonna need a bill of particulars counselor
Posted on 2/13/21 at 8:18 am to Strannix
quote:
Hey XYZ is a good buy because its impossibly over shorted, which was true, accurate, public information.
but the issue is many didn't stop there. there was a group element and coordination involved that was communicated as the plan. you can't deny this
"it's shorted 140%. if we all buy, there won't be shares for them to exchange" is getting close but it's almost assured MM if the plan involves getting others to join in with those coordinating...which the WSB short squeeze required. that's the problem these retail movements will always have, because the only way they can affect the market is to coordinate and get people to join in as a collective, which is specifically what the regulatory framework is against
Posted on 2/13/21 at 8:27 am to Strannix
quote:
I'm gonna need a bill of particulars counselor
15 U.S. Code § 78i - Manipulation of security prices
quote:
(a)Transactions relating to purchase or sale of security
It shall be unlawful for any person, directly or indirectly, by the use of the mails or any means or instrumentality of interstate commerce, or of any facility of any national securities exchange, or for any member of a national securities exchange—
quote:
(2)To effect, alone or with 1 or more other persons, a series of transactions in any security registered on a national securities exchange, any security not so registered, or in connection with any security-based swap or security-based swap agreement with respect to such security creating actual or apparent active trading in such security, or raising or depressing the price of such security, for the purpose of inducing the purchase or sale of such security by others.
1. you must engage in a series of transactions (doesn't even require a 2nd person)
2. with a security or swap of a security
3. creating actual or apparent trading of that security OR changing the price of that security
4. if your transactions are meant to induce others to buy/sell the security
quote:
(3)If a dealer, broker, security-based swap dealer, major security-based swap participant, or other person selling or offering for sale or purchasing or offering to purchase the security, a security-based swap, or a security-based swap agreement with respect to such security, to induce the purchase or sale of any security registered on a national securities exchange, any security not so registered, any security-based swap, or any security-based swap agreement with respect to such security by the circulation or dissemination in the ordinary course of business of information to the effect that the price of any such security will or is likely to rise or fall because of market operations of any 1 or more persons conducted for the purpose of raising or depressing the price of such security.
1. A person/entity buys/sells a security
2. That induces the purchase/sale of that security
3. By circulating information that the price of the security will rise/fall
4. That rise/fall is due to the behavior of a person/entity
5. For the purposes of raising/lowering the price of the security
quote:
(i)Limitations on practices that affect market volatility
It shall be unlawful for any person, by the use of the mails or any means or instrumentality of interstate commerce or of any facility of any national securities exchange, to use or employ any act or practice in connection with the purchase or sale of any equity security in contravention of such rules or regulations as the Commission may adopt, consistent with the public interest, the protection of investors, and the maintenance of fair and orderly markets—
quote:
(1)to prescribe means reasonably designed to prevent manipulation of price levels of the equity securities market or a substantial segment thereof; and
quote:
(2)to prohibit or constrain, during periods of extraordinary market volatility, any trading practice in connection with the purchase or sale of equity securities that the Commission determines (A) has previously contributed significantly to extraordinary levels of volatility that have threatened the maintenance of fair and orderly markets; and (B) is reasonably certain to engender such levels of volatility if not prohibited or constrained.
I'm not going to get into the regs, but I assure you SOME regulation pursuant to this section covers the behavior of WSB
Posted on 2/13/21 at 8:29 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
collective, which is specifically what the regulatory framework is against
Which is precisely what any "fund" is
quote:
because the only way they can affect the market
Yes its WSB fault not the 140% short interest, if anything comes out of this it should be any share can only be shorted once before the position is closed and returned.
This post was edited on 2/13/21 at 8:31 am
Posted on 2/13/21 at 8:31 am to SlowFlowPro
Yes you did
LINK
To which my response was, lawsuits sure. criminal prosecution? Doubt it.
LINK
quote:
i'm obviously on the record saying they're going to prosecute some WSB posters and likely people on Twitter
quote:
the only way they can keep the current system going with that threat is to eliminate that threat. the only way i see them being able to do that is with criminal prosecution
To which my response was, lawsuits sure. criminal prosecution? Doubt it.
This post was edited on 2/13/21 at 8:32 am
Posted on 2/13/21 at 8:32 am to Auburn1968
I said all along this was going to happen, you may even get a couple of poor bastards who get made examples of.
No way the DOJ or SEC was going to let this go free. I’m honestly not sure their was intent here, but it sure laid the blueprint for what’s possible and they want to scare people from doing it again
No way the DOJ or SEC was going to let this go free. I’m honestly not sure their was intent here, but it sure laid the blueprint for what’s possible and they want to scare people from doing it again
Posted on 2/13/21 at 8:45 am to barry
quote:
I’m honestly not sure their was intent here, but it sure laid the blueprint for what’s possible and they want to scare people from doing it again
quote:
the only way they can keep the current system going with that threat is to eliminate that threat. the only way i see them being able to do that is with criminal prosecution
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